If he had said something, anything, about the three Rs and duty to constitution I might have given him the benifit of the doubt and say he sincerely had best intentions. But it's obvious he had his own agenda (or someone elses) and helped give birth to the modern day brainwashing centers we call public schools.

Yes Mike, heresies. And just wait til the inquisition really gets going!

I second that E Archer. The U.S. is NOT A DEMOCRACY! IT IS A REPUBLIC and the only place democracy entered in was the election of govt. officials. But even that system is corrupt now.

Thanks for that Mike. I finally understand the sovereignty and the land connection. You stated it very clearly. I will save it for future reference. The five stars are for you. I still think sovereign is a dangerous word to let state and in particular federal govt. to use. (It might go to their heads!) ha ha. Sarcasm implied.

I like it. Shows where the real power in this country is supposed to be and how it could and should be used in areas of disagreement. And more importantly, keeping the peace while sorting out the differances. And of course the north ignored these words in the war between the states.

So if I understand properly now, the sovereignty the state has is the collective sovereignty of the individuals extending to the state govt. and through the states to the federal govt. I'm trying to get this clear because the Feds get eminent domain through their "sovereignty" and because of their sovereignty were until The Tucker Act of 1887 (I think the date is right) immune to law suits and to this day through other legislation regulate who can sue them, how they can sue them and why they can sue them. These laws are not restricted to international treaties but extend to the states and the citizens. I admit it makes me wary when I read quotes of this nature. Time for more research.

RobertSRQ, WHEN the day comes all those questions will be answered for you. That is, if you are seriously looking for the answers.

E Archer, Thank you, your explanation makes sense with what I understand has been a big help. Who is this Waffler? Whew!

At what point of betrayal do I have the right of self defense - I always love it when people say "Guns don't kill people do". Out of interest I ask a question of our learned fellows herein: What are the key principles for peace and how are they attained? -- RobertSRQ The Declaration of Independence can answer your first question. Read it in detail. The key principles for peace are not engraved in stone. The whole history of mankind has been a search for those principles and when our founding fathers wrote the constitution they were closer to understanding and attaining those key principles than man had ever come. They were no fools though and recognized what they were protecting in the document were "ideals" and not some "thing" you could put your hands on. This is why they warned their posterity to be ever diligent in watching over the constitution and protect it from abuse. They knew they didn't have a perfect system and that the search for the "key principles for peace" were not attainable at that time so as to be written down on a piece of paper. Are they attainable? Who knows. That is why men continue to search. If you desire to answer your own question I recommend starting with the ancient philosophers and study the writings of our forefathers explaining what they were trying to accomplish with the constitution. With your understanding maybe you can help to attain peace. After all, isn't that what man truly wants. I hope this helps and have a nice day.

Sovereignty over who or what? I thought the individual was sovereign. Did the people delegate their sovereignty to the states? Does any one know in what context this was said?

This is addressed to Waffler's defense of democracy. "Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide." -- John Adams.
"It is bad to be oppressed by a minority, but it is worse to be oppressed by a majority" -- Lord Acton.
In our Costitutional "Republic" The danger of oppression is from the govt. exceeding its limitations of power. They exceeded those limitations decades ago.

Interesting in the sense that those perverting the constitution are on the attack and using arms to protect it is considered self defense. Very good quote.

And properly informed. The problem today is the majority are neither properly informed nor properly armed. One day they may get the message and let's hope they can still get a gun.

By the time people realize it's time, time will have run out.

Aahhh, the first example of governments erected on the simple principles of nature contrived merely by the use of reason and the senses. It soothes my heart which cries out for justice. Thanks for the quote.

Well if you take a good look around, the political institution they did approve was not founded on fear but it has by stealth gained so much power and authority it controls with subliminal fear and sometimes in certain cases where it feels it is warranted (and can get away with it) undisguised terror.

There are three basic forms of govt in the world, 1. Where one rules himself in respect of anothers right to do the same, (a republic). In America a constitutional republic. 2. Where the many rule the few, (a democracy). 3. Where the one rule the many, (a monarchy). In degraded form despotism or tyranny. In America the constitution is supposed to be a law that protects the individual rights of the one from the abuse of the many and to protect the individual rights of the many from the abuse of the one. The only place democracy entered into it was the election of those to ensure the constitution was enforced. This is the true meaning of democratic republic. Unfortunately it wasn't long before the electees realized they could gain favor with the electors by granting them access to the public coffers. The birth of democratic socialism "herald(ing) the end of the republic". Democratic socialism. Where the people are dependent on the govt. for their welfare and the one who gets elected is the one who promises the most and lies the best. Do you ever wonder why our politicians use the term democracy to describe our govt. and very rarely use the term republic? In the pledge of allegiance we pledge "to the republic", not even to the "democratic republic" because democracy was only a minor exercise to elect officials and never considered the main form of govt. Will we ever learn before it's too late?

Napoleon Bonaparte-- "When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain"..... 9th Circuit Court, Banking quotes-- "... we conclude that the [Federal] Reserve Banks are not federal ... but are independent privately owned and locally controlled corporations... without day to day direction from the federal government" Quote from Mayer Amschel Rothschild-- "Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes the laws." -------- The U.S. is drained of its financial wealth and will only continue to be used as a war machine to accomplish the goals of the money makers. Witness the falling value of the dollar and the rise in the euro. Iran and China are the first (and not the last) to transfer assets from dollars into euros. We are witnessing the downfall of the once greatest nation on earth. And all because the American people handed over the power to create money to the Federal Reserve. And they really don't care if the debt gets paid back (they created the money out of thin air) so long as the whores in govt. continue to toe the line.

GWs words as it stands today say "to be in bed with, dependent on, all the nations of the earth. To share in the spoils of all."

I still have my copy of "The Law" after twenty years, an inspirational example of reason, logic and common sense. Its' message contains eternal truth that anyone with a patriotic passion should know and hold close to their hearts.

The best book I have ever read that clears the smokescreen of ignorance about coin, credit, and circulation is Tupper Sausseys `Miracle on Main Street`.

And in the case of a free America the time will come where the option to decide will no longer be an option. This is the beginning of slavery.

52 years later and the American mind still does not realize. In time reality will hit with full force and though many will fight and die many will run and cower in fear. Call it "communism" or "tyranny" or "democracy" or whatever you want to call it. What Hoover was talking about then still exists today and is known as pure evil.

In this case "us" and "terrorists" are synonomous so it matters not whose side you take.