And they say that our forefathers were not socialists... ha! ;-)

It takes a couple readings, but it sure does grow on ya'!

Spectactular! Would that there were a person today to stand up and unite us so effectively in our current battle with "King George".

Would that we will ever achieve this, rather than the reality that has existed throughout our history... that the robber barron has always had their own rules, separate from those which they impose upon their slaves... look who they have serving (and dying) in our latest unjust war (against nothing more than those who would dare to have a religion which differs from the robber barron's dirty henchmen's).

Robbers and oppressors? Robber barrons and the radical religious right (of every religion)! (And yes, those robber barrons are all criminals and the US based radical religious right has taken over the government.)

How perfect, as we see that our first responder here has so clearly illustrated the concept of this quote in his post!

Reason can exist in the presence of total ignorance, and ignorance can exist dispite clear reasoning. They are ortoganal to each other, not opposites. Reason is the opposite of irreason, and ignorance the opposite of knowledge. When the basic axiom is so wrong, so too are the conclusions drawn from it... which is clearly both reasonable and knowledable.

They are but two sides of the same coin, and they are not so clearly polarized as Paine would lead us to believe.

Society is just as subject to evil as government is. If this were not so, then the products of that society (such as government and organized religion and the god(s) they worship) would not so often turn out to be so evil, for they are not inherently evil, but rather a reflection of the evil which lives within the hearts and minds of the society which creates them.

This quote talks about the evil of a 93% tax rate, which has little to do with the low tax rates that already exist in the USA today (especially upon the rich). To fix our problems we need hard work and dedication, not overly simplistic non-solutions that will just make all of the existing basic problems worse.

Equality among men & women & blacks & whites & gays & hets does not say that they are identical, but rather that they must be treated in a manner which is indifferent to these differences... and there is no freedom until this is true... it is their right and it is the civil thing to do.

Such problems are not unique to government, and not even present in all parts of government... and yet can be found in many large private organizations (and even some small ones).

Such negitive thoughts bear little resemblence to reality...

Well said, but do not confuse not being aware of your lungs with weak lungs... indeed, it is only when you have strong lungs that you are healthy and carefree!

Freedom is a wonderful word... a word which each seems to read their own meaning into, expressing their freedom to have their own private nomenclature... yes, freedom for all is key, freedom from poverty, freedom from the yoke of the master, freedom from abuse... and yes, for us to all insure that we are all free, this may mean that there is a small price to pay... the price of compassion and caring for each other, each in the way we are most able.

Such negativism... I prefer to believe that some truely believe in their causes.

The master of double talk... reminds me of "Slavery is freedom"...

The immense damage done to the people by the GOP in the 80s, 90s and 00s is great evidence of this very principle and the spectacular insight shown by our founding fathers... the GOP rapes our government of the people for their own personal rewards while sticking their noses into our bedrooms to worry about who is recieving and giving oral sex. It is past time for another revolution of the people, by the people and for the people... I just hope the Democrats are not just a faction of the GOP and will stand up to being the second party that corrects this rape, pilage and plunder of the GOP.

Luckilly Heinlein saw thru to the base issues of human nature, including our inventions of such marvels as "the divine"... he saw that these principles are not limited to abstract and limited human inventions as "god", but rather to the more basic concrete and yet expansive inventions such as society itself (as he explicitly referenced in his words).

a worthless observation when every one can see what they want to see in the quote... and use it as justification for their own crushing of some group or one.

an over simplification of a complex subject

The page is full of jibber jabber...

Communism, fascism, nazism, radical religious right (of every major religion), the GOP and the radical liberal left (which is mostly missing in America today) are all aptly so described.

While different motivators are used in each case, the parallel is obvious to any who have open eyes and an inquiring mind. Sadly, many have already had their eyes and minds closed by the perverted leadership of these so called religious leaders...

Sadly, his description of socialism also closely matches the totalitartian directions that the current GOP leadership is fostering upon the US (and world).