Mr. Choderov has apparently not read the Constitution or the Pledge. We are Americans first, state and county residents second.

What? He apparently has never studied "manifest destiny".

This is cute but it requires us to accept his proposition that "the state is hell on earth". Latest polls showed general happiness around the globe with USA kind of low on the list of happiness. But that was due apparently with the unpopularity of the soon to be late Bush Presidency.

PS: Drucker was not talking about government but about inefficient procedures in general. Mike simply showed his stereotypical bias as usual. We all on this site have different ideas of what liberty is and what this site is about. For Mike liberty is about freedom from government. That is not what the patriots fought for but liberty to have their own government, of, by and for them.

Some of the public was against it and some were for it. Today Citi did great on the stock market so I guess that is the portion that was for the bailout.

PS: Mike hoever does not worry about stereotyping government all the time and every time.

A man has a book out currently in which he says that the Japanese success with child violinists or success in math and science is not magic. Like the Jewish success in musical prodigys the key ingredient is practice, practice, practice. The man says that excellence in academics or the arts is 10,000 hours of practice. There obviously is something in certain cultures whether it be financial security etc that allows children to thrive and strive. People of lower economic means whether they be of a minority race or rednecks who overly struggle for their daily bread may not have or think that they don't have the 10,000 hours to give to change their status in life. Wealthier folk historically have become the lawyers and doctors because of the initial time and capital required in the effort. I agree with hubert and it has been proven in Barack that education, education and education is the answer. I don't know that the value of practice is a Japanese or Jewish value, but many Americans both rich and poor are more into the pleasure factor of life rather than the sacrifice that practice requires. I guess Mike is right to about the stereotypical fallacy of this quote.

I think private industry is worse than "government". Why else is it that government must bail out AIG, Citi, GM, Ford, Chrysler etcetera, ad infinitem. If these so-called titans of efficient private enterprise were put in the bright light of sunshine they would be criticized probably more than is government. Don't make the good the enemy of the perfect, it always is not possible to eliminate a procedure that "should not be done at all" it may take several iterations and political manuevering to get the procedure all the way to the trash bin. I give it two for sounding good but withhold three for it being shallow and yes therefore unproductive.

PS: Oh! I just noticed the quote is from a book titled COMPROMISE.

True but politics may also be called simply "compromise" which can be called the "route of all evil" and the "saviour of a natin or people" at the same time. Strange is it not.

Such are the cards we are dealt. JFK said, "On earth Gods work must be done by men.", We often have to make moral judgements and take what we think are moral actions. I have heard some describe the Nuremberg trials as an example of a do gooder philosophy gone bad. I disagree. This quote could be used to argue against punishing behaviour in children, probably not what was intended by the writer. We should make our moral judgements and actions with much circumspection and second thoughts. I think judgemet and mercy it is called.

Some one else has said "As a person speaks so goes his mind". Speech is a form of action is it not, however, Singer is probably on to something and that is speech can also be filled with lies.

The right to be fooled once (on numerous issues) is the beginning of wisdom.

I sadly regret that I have but one thumb to put down! This is so unbalanced, he fails to state that the States gave up their sovererignity when they created the Union of States. Obviously in the history of hierarchy there has never been a system in which the constituent members can jerk around the whole or each other. The Whiskey Rebellion was brought up the other day. A few counties in Western Pennsylania tried to take the law into their own hands. That ended in favor of and enhancing the power and authority of the Union. Mr. Upshur is on to something however in regards to "one department ruliing or judging for all". In the same manner a court only has jurisdiction within its geographic region. Thus if the Fifth Circuit rules a certain way in a case it does not control the law in the entire country only in the Fifth Circuit. Only when the case is adjudicated all the way to the Supreme Court does it become the Law of The Land. Thus States, Courts and Departments cannot dictate to the entire country. Arn't we glad we are a land of law and not dictators whether they be any of the above entities.

Americans don't need Ukranians to tell us that. We have George W, you know the guy who even chopped down that poor little tree.

Thanks Tony I appreciate your comments. The quotes are just talking points. We are free or at liberty to say anything we want to about them. Remember Kennedy proposed Medicare, so what does that say about what he meant about the quote.

I see Archer totally different than he sees himself. I see him as a starry eyed straight jacketed true believer incapable of freedom of thought. I have been accused on this site of having meandering thoughts which accusation I readily accept and glory in. I am genrerally considered to be a free thinker as attested to by my story today of my defense of freedom of religion to a Baptist congregation.

I repeat Tony it is cute poetry signifying very little. Who does not like Kennedy but this is just a platitude. If he would define what problems and what liberties a decent discussion could be had. I can fully understand how the dogmatists among us can latch on to it, get fired up. and go berserk over it, since sloganeering without thinking is the extent of their exercise.

Jim K. the Jews killed every one on their way to the promised land also, and we honor them. And Christians have been known to kill not only their enemies but each other of different sects. I stood up in a small Baptist church on the weekend of the Fourth of July several years ago and asked to give praise and thanksgiving for a country in which "we can be Muslim if we want to be". Most were shocked at my words but a little old lady who often stated that she was a fairly new Christian spoke out immediately and said "Thats right!' This was at a time that Muslims were in general considered to be our enemy and were all suspects. The defense of religious freedom even for the Muslims during this time by none other than W was a sight to behold and something every American should be proud of and thankful for. How short our memories are!

I researched the Whiskey Rebellion. The article concluded with these words, "As soon as the militia (13,000 men assembled by the states of Pa, NJ, Maryland, Va. and turned over to the US) crossed the mountains, all resistance collapsed. Oaths of allegiance to the federal laws were obtained. The insurrection was important in its demonstration for the first time of the power of the federal government and prerogatives of the president."

Like yeah we should have fought WWII on our own individually and we should each put a solar windmill in our backyards etcetera. Here Kennedy expresses a nice poetic or spiritual sentiment but he ignores pragmatic reality. I give it a star for poetry and deduct 4 stars for the other reason.

This truth applies not only to the political realm but to all social functions. When one is in with one group or friend, corporation etc he adopts certain behaviours, attitudes, and opinions in order to get along and go along with that group and is generally happy to give up his freedom of behaviour, attitude and opinion so that he will not suffer the danger of being cast off into the cold world of "them".

It is ironic that when government protects a citizens liberty the citizens at large see it as an attack on theirs. I have recently read of citizens at large having outrage over the issuance of a stamp honoring Muslim holidays. The protection of liberty by government is generally the protection of us from each other. Our liberty is basically limited to giving wide berth to all others, while we are not at liberty to tell others what to do, think or pray, and this pisses many of us off.

Thanks Mr. Woods. My sentence structure was not correct. I meant to say that we or some Americans would like to see China have what we call freedom. With out the freedom which we value so highly they are beating us economically it would appear. Just a bit of irony it seems.

Are we to assume that you sypathize with and support the cartels and the poppy growers ad nausema. Drug trade is just another honest living, just like porn and prostitution. Chris lets cut to the chase for one reason or another man has always had "government" and these colonies were no different. The pilgrims and the puritans, the Quakers too were highly organized and regulated societies. What after all is government and governance than organization and a common set of rules, standards, practices etcetera. To be factual the Articles were only propsed in 1777 and not adopted until 1781 even though they were the de facto constitution before final adoption.