“The gods help them that help themselves.”

'taint "the gods" in this case... and sometimes we do need a little external help in addition to our own efforts... yet, the core rings true.

Help from the 'gods' is really funny when you thinnk he was talking about Zeus and his entourage. But then I guess it shows how human belief in deities with the power to intervene directly in human affairs is a standard that continues to define the western judaeo-christian-islamic tradition. Not the best thing from the Greeks that was passed down through the ages.

Yes, sometime "we do need a little external help"; however, it is not government's job to help those who cannot help themselves, except to protect the individual from the encroachment of another individual or the masses. Leave private enterprise, religious charity, and philanthropy to help those who cannot help themselves; at least these sources know when to stop when something doesn't work. It is a proven fact that more money goes directly to help the poor by using private enterprise, religious charity, and philanthropy than by government welfare. Did anyone else see the special on ABC's 20/20 last week that said the United States is far behind other nations in sending government aid to distraught nations; however, the private sector of the United States sends more money to distraught nations, that actually gets to those in need, than nearly all the rest of the world's governments combined? Amazing! Capitalism, philanthropy, and personal accountability DO work to help and provide for the poor. Damn bureaucracy! Using government as the source of charity only creates theft by due process, and creates an extremely unecomical system of waste; all at the expense of the both the rich and the poor.

You could just take off the final S, and capitalize the G. But I think that God helps the helpless, as well.

I guess, being an atheist, I have no divine help coming at all. I have to do everything for myself, as I always have. (Thank God)

Well, Jack, if you get to Heaven, you can be sure it was because you had help.

Classic.

Since you brought it up, David, where is Heaven? I can't get the concept. With no body and no brain, how does one know when he gets there? Why would anyone want to get there? Describe it...not in detail... just a general idea. I marvel at people who claim to want to go there, but have no idea what or where it is. If Heaven doesn't exist and you can't get there, does that mean you were good for nothing?

You can't get there, Jack. You can only be allowed to go there. I will let you know what it is like when I am booted out, OK?

I think the Israelis had been reading that one. They have helped themselves to someone else's land on the basis that it was promised to them by God. In the process they have carried out ethnic cleansing and massacres of the indigenous population. Relgion is dangerous stuff as it gives people the idea that they have the right to do things that are clearly wrong.