America used to be a nation in which the common man could own land free and clear from any claim by government to tax it or confiscate it; it made the USA unique in nearly all the world. 

Land patents were issued granting title in allodium — like what the King would give his generals that conquered foreign lands.  Land patents are no longer paid any attention to since the introduction of fiat currency because we do not actually pay for anything with it, merely transfer the obligation of the note to another. 

But there are those that still have their land patents, and they know who they are.  Their land cannot be taxed.  Look it up.  The Bureau of Land Management used to issue land patents and update them when property ownership was transferred.  Now we have duplicated the British system yet again, in which the people are serfs on their own land — don't pay the tax, and the government can seize your property.  Why? Because you don't have the land patent.  Who does?  Good question, but every square inch of land in the USA was patented when each state joined the Union.  Somebody has the land patent, and the US government was prohibited from owning the land, only individual persons could own land, AND it was what made them  'electors' and the only ones whose votes were to be counted for Governor or President.

Remember, the Bill of Rights does not confer rights to the People — the People already have their rights which cannot be taken away.  The Bill of Rights spells out explicitly what the government may NOT do.  We have no First Amendment "right" — we have a First Amendment "prohibition" of government's power to regulate speech in any way.

I've always appreciated Mike's distinction between 'law' and 'rules' or statutes (i.e. colorable law).  The laws of nature in fact cannot be 'broken' without inevitable consequences.  We abide by rules or a code of conduct to avoid the inevitable 'punishment' of breaking the laws of nature.  That is why Liberty is to be defended and its limits defined by the rights of all — we are not free to do anything without consequence. 

A republican form of government formed on the basis of the inalienable rights of humankind is the best and highest form of government — and also requires an honorable citizenry with mutual respect for all.  It is no accident that the teachings of Christ form the basis of American common law — as you sow so shall you reap.

You have to remember the times and context of the quote.  Paine was a significant 'influencer' in the days preceding the war for independence.  Is he not wishing independence for all, not just the American colonies?  Had he not seen the hypocritical wars between different religious factions?  Sounds to me like a cry for freedom of religion years before the Bill of Rights protected it. 

I have no problem with the quote, and it has nothing to do with statist/socialist government.  It's about 'independence' and the desire to 'do good' not to make others do good.

J6 prisoners come to mind.  Can you imagine if Trump had not won?  They would still be in there and under horrendous conditions.  Classic communist/fascist/socialist tactics — imprison the dissenters. 

I sure would like to see some politicos put behind bars for their deceitful actions over the last 10 years.  Biden issued pre-emptive pardons on some of the worst offenders — is that even lawful?  If you don't hang a few treasonous politicians from time to time, they will never stop.

As watchman has improved his communications here over the years, I would like to say I am in agreement.  But keep it short and sweet if possible if you want anyone to read it, much less understand it.

I fear this quote merely scratches the surface of the "wickedness" of those in positions of power today.  The Weiner laptop "insurance policy" comes to mind. 

Will the whole truth be exposed once the FBI, CIA, NSA and other 'intelligence' agencies are cleared out?  And that's just the US — the globalists seem to be hell-bent on killing off 3/4 of the planet while enslaving the rest. 

I wish I was exaggerating, but all you have to do is a bit of digging into some very creepy and dark places and you may become convinced, as I am, that Satanists literally rule the world.  God help us. 

Exactly, wirkman!

Good grief, Waffler demonstrates the statist programming perfectly as usual.  The US government has nearly completely abandoned republican government calling its current form of statism 'democracy.' 

Left and right are merely on the scale of statism — a republican form of government is not even on the scale.  Both communists and fascists call themselves socialists — FACT.  Just ask Stalin and Hitler, both self-proclaimed socialists — and socialism eventually results in dictatorship whether from the left or the right. 

Too few Americans really know upon what their government is founded, and until we wake up and realize the deception, we will continue to be ruled by a de facto state that lays claim to everything and everyone.  Is it time? 

I like Mike's distinction between 'law' and 'rules.'  Law is immutable, rules are meant to keep behavior in line with the immutable law, to protect us from the inevitable consequences of 'breaking' the law.

The Golden 'Rule' is: do unto others as you would have done unto you.  Why?  Because of the 'Law': As you sow, so shall you reap.  Thus the need for redemption, because if we are to reap what we have sown, who can escape retribution?  And so, according to the Law, we are forgiven as we ourselves forgive others.  This is what Christianity in its purest sense implores upon us.

Perhaps it has lost something in translation ...

Government restraint is long gone, if it ever was.... but I must say, now in 2025, I've never in all my days seen such a concerted effort to reign in the government by our elected leaders.  Of course the good ol' boys and girls are screaming bloody murder — "It's a Constitutional Crisis, we are losing our democracy!"  Ha! 'Their' democracy is simply their power — good riddance.  Our Constitutional Republic has never been in better hands! (and it's only been 3 weeks!)

Robert, it is self-evident that the universe, the stars, the planets, the living creatures, plants, animals and people are 'created' (manifested, evolved, came into being, whatever) intelligently.  There is no evidence that mankind just evolved from the soup without a design process.  DNA is intelligently designed — it is not random, it is a program for life.  The periodic table stands as a testament to the building blocks and the natural order of the physical word and how their interactions create mass and energy in proper forms and order. 

The universe is highly ordered — intelligently ordered.  All atheism can claim is that you do not believe but have no evidence on how the Creation happens without intelligence.  Taken to the extreme, an electric Tesla car was not designed by intelligent design but by random selection.  Impossible.

What the atheists dare not consider is "what if I am wrong?"  It is an arrogance and narcissism that all can see that KNOW — yes, we KNOW because the Truth is self-evident, no matter how old or young, whether college educated or not, we KNOW because the truth has simply been revealed and is self-evident.

Mock us all you like, you will be wrong, point to how we are hypocrites and you will very well be right, but it doesn't change the Truth.  When you are ready to accept the truth and drop your weapons and end your war, you may come to know the love that is the basis of all.  I know you to be compassionate but with conditions.  Let it all go and pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.  Cheers!

It's finally happening, Robert.  The corruption is being routed out and those screaming the loudest are giving themselves away and revealing further that classic tactics for Congressmen and woman to skimp the cream off the top and get their campaigns financed by those they grant money to — often without oversight or even lawfully allocated — are being exposed. 

The RINOs are keeping relatively quiet for fear of losing their seats, but we've got to get rid of them too.  It's only been 3 weeks but it has been glorious!  Never in American history has this been done before. 

And we have Elon Musk to thank for showing us how its done, as he reduced his Twitter staff by 80% with hardly a blip to service.  We also should show a debt of gratitute to Argentina's Javier Milei for getting the ball rolling and showing us it can be done.  And don't forget the example of Nayib Bukele who rounded up 40,000 gang members, reduced crime to near zero, and now allows Bitcoin to be used as currency in El Salvador — no central bank for him!

Wow, finally somebody's listening and I knew it would come from outside the Deep State because they have no need to reform themselves from their criminality.

It's happening people!  Let's do a full audit of the Federal Reserve, too, and Elon can explain to the world how the racket works!

Wow, in 2025, Americans are seeing perhaps for the first time true fiscal reform with the dismantling of USAID and other slush funds that continue to disperse funds automatically long after their temporary status has expired.  We are finally seeing how the Deep State runs, and it is glorious to see the Leviathon squirm as we cut off it's food supply — starve the Beast!

I don't think there were more radical libertarians than the Continental Congress of 1776.  For the first time in centuries, the people declared their sovereignty from kings and Caesars.  Ever since, America has been the target of those that wish to rule the world and make all people subjects to their will.  Unfortunately, most Americans have been tricked into subservience to a de facto statism that lays claim to everyone and everything.  If it weren't for 'radical' libertarians, there would be no Liberty at all.

Will we ever learn?

That's it right there, Mike!

We've come a long way, baby!  It's a shame that both church and state have been turned upside down and shaken from their true foundations.  Nothing but a return to fundamentals is needed — a monumental task indeed, but if the media's talking heads would but spend one week reminding the people the true nature of republican government, the history of the statist take-over, the theft of the rights of the people to the land, to the fruits of their labors, to their speech, to their religion, to their LIBERTY, the lines would be drawn and we would finally know who the enemies of freedom are (many of us know already).

The Truth is not broadcast — it must be sought diligently, beginning within ourselves.  As we sow shall shall we reap, and we have sown a great deal of discord, deceit and division — enough so that the youth see nothing but hypocrisy, and rightfully so, and have fallen victim to the lies of secular collectivism so-called 'democracy.'  This is all by design by those that wish to rule over us. 

But the Truth cannot be destroyed.  We may try to ridicule it, mock it, bind it, punish it, crucify it, but it is indestructible.  When we end our war against 'the Way' our chains will be broken — and no sooner.  We have no one to blame but ourselves.  Have courage and KNOW, stand up as if your life and the lives of your children and every generation that follows depends on it — because it does.  If we cannot see that we are headed in the wrong direction, what can save us from ourselves?  Indeed, this is the wake-up call (again)!

As has already been clearly demonstrated, your ideology is neither original nor unheard of.  Neither do you make an argument, just assertions without substance or merit.  Your vague platitudes are illusory — and dare I say delusionary.  Where is your evidence?  You can't even define your 'socialism' beyond abstractions.  If you have been misrepresented, then do better at representing.  It is no surprise that you find yourself alone — even Jesus had disciples.  You will not establish anything, I'm sorry.

If you won't accept artificial intelligence's word for it, try REAL intelligence. May the Truth make itself known to you and make you free.

A 'properly coordinated technocracy' is NOT what is wanted or needed.

Good grief, keep Fred away from my children ...

Again, no details.  FYI, I took my own advice and asked ChatGPT to ask me some questions to determine my political ideology and general philosophy.  I got a very detailed report after answering the questions.  In summary, 

Your views align most closely with Classical Liberalism, Libertarian Constitutionalism, and Civic Republicanism with an emphasis on natural rights, decentralized governance, free markets, and personal responsibility. Your economic philosophy is sound money-oriented and anti-central banking, and you have a deep commitment to individual liberty, self-governance, and limited government intervention.

Additionally, your metaphysical perspective suggests a belief in a higher order to the universe, possibly a divine intelligence or God, and the idea that moral laws are self-enforcing through cause and effect ("as you sow, so shall you reap").

Then I submitted your post "The state is in a eternal challenge to reach a state of positive, productive order. The state is continuously striving to find the behavior that will encourage and facilitate the dimension of life. Proper messaging and coordination are continual sought, identified, and disseminated." and asked it to classify what ideology you were likely to hold. ;-) 

Fred's statement is quite abstract and somewhat vague, but based on the wording, I would classify his ideology as statist, technocratic, and potentially collectivist in nature. Here’s a breakdown of what his statement suggests and possible interpretations:

... suggests a belief in the state as a central force for societal progress.
... The phrase “eternal challenge” implies perpetual state-driven optimization, which aligns with technocratic governance—a belief that the state must constantly adjust policies to refine and perfect social organization.
... implies that the state should be involved in shaping behavior, possibly through policies, incentives, or social engineering.
... The use of “striving” suggests an ongoing, interventionist approach to governance.
... suggests a strong role for the state in information control, messaging, and propaganda.
... “Proper messaging” implies that the state must define and control narratives.
... “Coordination” suggests a top-down approach, where the state ensures that society aligns with a defined objective.
... Based on these interpretations, Fred’s views align with some form of statism, but the exact type depends on his other beliefs

[which could include] Technocracy, Soft Authoritarianism / Managerial Statism, Mild Collectivism, and Orwellian Newspeak.

I couldn't agree more! 

Just repeating the same jargon doesn't make it any more understandable.  Not specific at all.

"The state is in a[n] eternal challenge to reach a state of positive, productive order."  The 'state' is a strawman — this is a collectivist/statist view.  'We the People' comprise the nation and have chartered a limited government for the mutual protection of our natural-born rights from those that wish to usurp them (like your 'state') whether foreign or domestic.

Define a "state of positive, productive order."  Sounds just like every communist leader.

"The state is continuously striving to find the behavior that will encourage and facilitate the dimension of life."  What happens when the government (the state) 'finds' the behavior they seek?  Whose behavior?  What behavior?  How will this behavior be enforced upon We the People?  Who has authorized the state with the power to impose the behavior?  Remember that 'the state' is just a coterie of other people, they are not meant to be all-powerful beings seeking to find the best way to be and then impose it upon the rest of us. 

WE THE PEOPLE shall pursue our own happiness individually and in our own way.  We are not to be dictated to by the likes of 'the state'.  Sheesh, your utopian state is nothing but a Caesar "continuously striving." 

What is, specifically, "the dimension of life"?  How does the state "encourage and facilitate" it?  Give me an example, this is WAY too vague.

"Proper messaging and coordination are continual[ly] sought, identified, and disseminated."  Again, vague and without substance.  Give me an example of "proper messaging" vs "improper messaging."  Do you simply mean 'messaging'?  How, via a free press or the state or from the common man?  From whom is the messaging to originate and to whom is it to be directed.

You are living in a dream world, Fred.  Get your head out of the clouds, and get off your high horse and join the rest of us.  For goodness sakes, your hubris in uncanny.