Who is the arbiter of what you call "appropriate"?  What about just plain right and wrong, good and evil?  Is there evil in the world, and should we not do what is truly right? Yes.  Has making rules stopped the criminals from ignoring them? No. How is appropriating the fruits of someone else's labors and industry in any way 'taking responsibility'?

Freedom absolutely requires responsibility.  When people do not take responsibility and insist that others provide for them because it is 'just,' 'equitable,' and 'fair,' they corrupt not only themselves but the law of nature: as you sow, so shall you reap.  Victim consciousness and the blame game (which you are quite adept at, Fred) are mere excuses for theft and slavery.

How can we do better?  Great question!  My take is how to empower people to take responsibility rather than place their burdens on others or the state?  Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day, teach him to fish, and he can feed himself forever.  Socialism treats people as powerless, and individuals who are not are a threat and must be brought to heel so that wiser council members (who produce nothing) can regulate them.

Take a long penetrating look at the history of the Soviet Union, communist China & Cuba, the socialist dictators in Central and South America — the common people are reduced to poverty, their countries loaded with unpayable debts until barrels full of currency can't buy a loaf of bread.  It is not due to the common people but due to their leadership, all of whom spout the same rhetoric you do, Fred.  Crap may be plentiful but it is not nourishing.

If that is truly the case, Fred, you will have to start speaking English.  "Socialism has been apart of the swindle or scam procedures" — do you mean 'apart' or 'a part'?  What swindle?  What scam? What procedures? What is 'our environment'?  Please come down to Earth and stop speaking in generalities.  It is only when you make clear unambiguous statements that the truth comes out — that your ideas are authoritarian in nature, and differ little than those espoused by Hitler and Stalin.  Seriously.

Strawman argument. (Logical fallacy) Since the "conventional individual" does not assert that 1+1=2 or that the world is flat, nor are those of us in dialogue with you on drugs or being manipulated, your attempted misdirection falls flat on its face once again.

You constantly claim to be superior to us and lecture us on how we ought to be.  YOU claim to be the guiding adult because we are mentally ill children.  We reject it outright, and I specifically believe you to be mentally deranged, and I am ever hopeful that you will get the help you so desperately need.  You are no danger to me personally, for you are but a paper tiger.  But you must be woefully unhappy and comfort yourself with your narcissistic ideas to keep the demons at bay.  Turn back while you still can, please.  Get off your high horse and join the rest of the human race.

Yep.  And Fred is not only religious, he is a zealot!  If someone else was posting as much as Fred does, and they used the word 'Jesus' as many times as he has used 'socialism,' we would call them a Jesus-freak.  Well, he is a socialism-freak — in fact, I would go so far as to say Fred is claiming messianic authority as well since he claims to be the ONLY person on the planet that truly knows what socialism is and is fit to lead the rest of us.  If that isn't religious, I don't know what is.

Fred, I hate to break it you, you have not shown any example of logical reasoning, in fact, your posts are littered with logical fallacies, demonstrating a most disordered mind.

You make yourself very clear that your version of socialism is no different than fascism (and every other form of authoritarianism):

"Social engineering is the pinnacle of human activity. To plan out our lives with precision is what makes the human a beautiful adaptation to the natural environment."

And THAT, my dear friend, is what the socialist 'revolution' is all about — and that absolutely requires violence against any who resist social engineering in all its insidious forms.  The freeman will defend himself and his nation against this appropriation of power. 

We know who you are, Fred, and what you are about.  You have been cursed with a lie, and you must lie to yourself in order to never confront the con.  We will not let such rhetoric and associated mandates from on high take root, claiming to help us 'for our own good.'  Let there be no mistake, you declare war on those that do not want your 'plan.' 

You are channeling Hitler, my dear sir!  I can provide you with ample proof that your words are identical, mixed in with the lies of Marx as well.

You have been duped!

Once again, misdirection.  You are as bad as the 'conventional' politician who will never answer a direct question.  Your tactics are in reality quite conventional and quite unproductive to rational thought.  You are completely full of crap.  Sorry, the truth hurts, I know, but your posts are completely without substance.

You might want to ask yourself why people "always arrive at some insidious Freudian" observation when you speak.  Maybe because you are nuts ...  I mean if people always come to that conclusion, either they are always wrong or ... Let me put it this way, which is more likely, 1) you are the only sane adult on the planet (which you have asserted many times), or 2) you are wrong.

All you have done is changed the subject.  You said "We need specifics of who does not produce, who produces, and who complains."  I provided 2 pages of examples (sorry, Editor).  You use needlessly euphemistic language (i.e. basic "industrial" interest of our populace arrangement & individuals in the conventional arrangement) {who talks like this?} — speak plainly and don't try to misdirect when you have been given a direct response.  

Huh?  What are you talking about?  I provided several examples, and drug / sex trafficking were not among them, nor do I claim that they are.  The self-delusion is yours and is plain as day.  Again, logical fallacies are not sound arguments.

Fred, your favorite religion 'socialism' absolutely requires violence — just witness the socialist riots happening around the country and the world.  Socialism is the great FRAUD rendering the individual into a subordinate cog in the machinery of the State. 

Social engineering is inhuman, whereas liberty is the most humane of all.  It is the socialists who lay claim to the labors and property of others, not the true liberal.  All socialist solutions require the confiscation and regulation of property and labor to the ruling class for distribution to the masses.  In communist Russia, only the bureaucrats had butter while the masses starved.  The failures of such systems are so massive, the only defense is that it hasn't been done right yet. ;-) It can't, and it never will.  The ultimate aim of socialism and its variants is to make the people powerless to resist it.  Servitude is their creed, and power is their god.

Like I said, read Hayek's book.  Too much to put here.  You either get it or you don't (or won't, in your case, Fred, so not going to waste my breath here).

Hence the 'nanny-state' that treats the people as children from cradle to grave. Ptooey!

For the very simple reason that the debt is unpayable — it is greater than all the money in circulation!  Welcome to the great con.  BTW socialism cannot even begin to fulfil all its empty promises without this endless debt system.

Wrong.  Both fascists and communists call themselves socialists — because they are!  They are authoritarian, statist, and anti-liberal in nature, the very antithesis of a liberal republican form of government founded upon the natural born rights of the people.

A truly socialist democracy is the centralization of power by 2 warring socialist factions, the 'left' (communist) and the 'right' (fascist) ever vying for the seats of power of the ruling class, which is the complete opposite of a constitutional representative government supported by the distributive powers of the people (individuals) across thousands of counties, 50 states, and 3 branches of national government that each are checks upon the other.

It is a typical argument of the collectivist (statist) that individualism is 'selfish' while in fact the individual looking out for his own self interest is the very basis of liberty.  Socialists find individualism a constant thorn in their side because they take responsibility for their own lives rather than bow to the whims of the truly selfish who lay claim to the power to dictate to others because they know better — or as you constantly remind us, that YOU are the only adult in the room, and the rest of us are children in need of your guidance.  I am willing to bet, Fred, you have no children of your own, hmm?  Am I right?

Hah!  We know what you really mean, Fred.  'The cult of individuality is misguided, but sometimes we really need an individual to lead us in the right way of socialism.'  When we talk about respecting the individual we mean ALL individuals.  YOU are implying the old con that all are equal but some are more equal than others...

Another bastardization of history from secular progressive liberalism.  The USSR, China, and Cuba are all democracies, too.  All forms of socialism inevitably aim for one party rule.

We true classic liberals are NOT trying to influence other people!  That is the very danger of majoritism, often referred to as democracy, but is in fact mob rule.  True liberalism is the defense of liberty, not mastering control over others through 'influence' political, hypnotical or otherwise.  The lust for power of the collective is the root of all evil — and daily the 'game of thrones' continues so long as there is a seat of power from which to rule.

Fred, Bastiat is talking about YOU who claims superiority over all of us as the only sane 'adult' in existence!  Talk about narcissistic...

Spoken like a true defender of Marxism, an ideology responsible for more deaths in history than all the religious wars put together.  'You will know them by their fruits...'

I provided several examples, Fred.  It absolutely is mind-boggling how the Western world has been hoodwinked into declaring war on energy production and agriculture all in the name of 'climate change' hysteria.  The real reason of course is to disempower these nations and to turn everyone into serfs and dependents to the state and ultimately to the ruler of the world.  These are the fruits of socialism in all its forms, for a truly independent, self-sufficient, and empowered populace is a perpetual danger to the designs of the geo-fascists.

Good grief, Fred.  "I'm not conceited, just clearly have no like minded confidantes." You have absolutely no self-awareness.  Your ideas are not unique, they are in fact as old as time, particularly among those who claim to know better than everyone else how they should run their lives.  There is no shortage of such utopian, authoritarian, egocentric rhetoric throughout recorded history.  We can just be thankful you were not born into power for you would make even Stalin blush.

Freedom?  It is illegal to be free!  You can holler all you like, you just can't actually exercise your freedom — that'll put you in jail but quick. 

Free speech? Sure, unless it challenges the status quo or you expose abuses of power. 
Possession of arms?  Sure, unless you actually use them in self-defense. 
Freedom of religion?  Sure, unless you try to pray in school or in front of an abortion clinic, or refuse to be forcibly injected by the state — heck, Christians are treated like second-class citizens, while judges can now take Sharia law into account when litigating cases of "honor killing." 
Private property rights?  Sure, as long as you pay your taxes (which have no limits), get permission to plant or grow anything, let thieves rob you instead of preventing their crimes — stop a shoplifter, and you can be prosecuted.
Freedom from slavery? Hah!  Servitude is the biggest racket in the world!

I get no joy from hollering for my freedom.  I'll be joyful when we get it!

I really can't understand why Fred is constantly harping about 'insanity' and 'childishness' while offering himself as the sole example of sanity and maturity.  His fallacious arguments do not reflect his claims, in fact, quite the opposite.  His conceit is only exceeded by his desire to hear himself talk.

Love it! ;-) The game is still rigged and engineered to turn us on each other while the powers-that-should-not-be laugh their way to the bank.

Fred, do you realize that nearly all of your so called arguments are fallacious? From the "No True Scotsman", "argumentum ad nauseam", "Appeal to the Stone", various "ad hominem", "Courtier's reply", various "Appeals to emotion", "Argumentum ad populum", "Bare assertion", "Moralistic", "Straw man" fallacies, not to mention serious cognitive dissonance exacerbated by narcissism and downright ignorance.

Please, for once, make an argument based on the merits of the points being highlighted. You could distill all of your posts over the last few years down to little more than pure wind.

Sheesh, please spare us this never-ending drivel spamming this blog ad nauseum.

They already have.  Remember that communism calls itself democratic, even though there is only one party.  Look at Europe, UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and a host of other 'democracies' that vote away the rights of the people incessantly.  'Liberalism' is no more — authoritarianism has taken its place.  That's how fascism enters the picture.  Socialism drives towards authoritarianism and centralized control which ultimately devolves into a despotism and/or dictatorship.

Heck even in the US, the 'Democratic' party is the least democratic of all — look at the way their primaries are run with 'super' delegates (some are more equal than others).  Kamala wasn't even chosen by the voters to run for president, she was appointed.  Democracy is a con to steal power from the freeman.

The Democrats' favorite phrase is that the opposition is a "threat to our democracy" — you're damn right it is!