Ditto E Archer/Michael Dick/Jack...do you actually think that freedom from fear/crime/oppression/etc. is free? It is a gift to you only because your forefathers bled for it...and there are many others in the modern day who have bled in your stead as well. At least show a little respect! It was Thomas Paine who said "THESE are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands by it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value. Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as FREEDOM should not be highly rated." And incidently--there are souls that are tried and found wanting (see Daniel 5 for details).

Hmmmm.....you know, you could actually word this another way as well--like we used to say it: "The perverse and degenerating influences in American life have always been those who call themselves unorthodox: the people who challenge an existing institutions or way of life, or say and do things that make people think that anything they do is genuis and creative simply because they do it or because it shocks--'Wow! Its genius!" no matter how inane and base it is." Which is right? Guess that depends on whether or not you know base and depraved or not.

Good posts everyone (mostly)... We are touching on the real essence of what we are here.... Are we free because we are taken care of -- ie kept, to some minimum standard, and that based on the whims of others and their ability to extract something from me for others... or are we free because we are producers -- capable of taking care of ourselves, working productively with others as equals not dependants, contributing to society and making the world a better place, and becoming all we can be? There was a day not to long ago, when the answer to this was so obvious and common knowledge in America that this question would be snickered at as immature and adolescent by even children in grade school. Think about it.