Yes, for once I agree. Lincoln should have left the South alone... A perfect reflection of the Bush/Obama era.

Justin, its rhetorical and stands alone.

Justin, thanks for your thoughtful feedback. Yes, socialists do believe that Liberty and Justice can be achieved through a strong centralized (small) government, representing, not only labor and production, but also the happiness and well-being of all the people they represent. We have presently a Plutocracy that is dress in socialist clothing and the media and most of America is falling for it hook line and sinker. Today the government has shifted so far to the right that they are falling over themselves to introduce more and more draconian legislation that inhibits our freedom day by day - all under the blanket of propagandized terrorism. It is so blatant which proves they don't care hiding it anymore. In actual fact your analogy should read in reverse. Don't go back to far, say last ten years; what socialist policies are you referring that empower the plutocracy - funnily enough your observation may be correct as we have socialized Wall Street and corporate America losses and privatized their profits - well done!

They found this nation because they wanted freedom from religious dogma and now it has become full circle. We have a country that over 50 percent go church and yet we have the worst corruption, incarceration, health care, and standard of living in the western industrial world. Anon, is right again, the cost of repression is far greater. Ken, we are being fleeced not by the socialists but by plutocracy (corporate whore's and their government lackeys and the media they own) - a very different politic.

Anon, you are spot on - well done! from a fellow Welshman (half).

Mike, A person hired would be responsible to administer that persons inalienable rights? what would be that persons political position? would they form a political party or an organization? And, if so what would this entity be called? Who and what would be responsible for the states infrastructure? And, how would the states infrastructure be funded? I'm just trying to understand how the individual (sovereign) will have their rights administered.

Archer, Progressives are rationalists who work in reason - something I'm your above commentary is lacking. Rich avoid like the plague paying taxes, only 30% actually do. A flat tax would stop that. And your statement re funding is truly twisted. It's the rich that can afford to fund thereby influencing change to their advantage. If you are unable to see the difference between mandatory health insurance and Universal Health Care then I'm afraid the argument is mute. Obviously you didn't read my comment on funding politicians - I said groups or individuals - funding is mandated by the state with regards to representation. Liberals is Liberty ("FREE"). I'm sorry Archer, but your retort reminds me of how politicians can twist any statement to meet their agenda - its fun to see it in practice.

Archer, I can lead a horse to the trough but I can't make them drink... Your statements are so skewed that it impossible for me to start trying to straighten them out. All I can say is that you are being manipulated either by the Church or by intellectual conservative who have a leaning towards fascism. WE DO NOT HAVE A PROGRESSIVE ADMINISTRATION and the very, very, last thing we call Obama is progressive. Progressives are Liberally minded and when they do hold the reins America will find its feet again. Until then I'm afraid its just the same old thing "Projectionism" without ant true reform the people benefit. A threat to audit the fed led to the addition manipulation where the rich were able to benefit - if the Progressive were in power these people would be a jail. Fortunately in the UK the conservative will have create an alliance with the liberals WOW! what terrible things will happen. In actual fact, it's the best result, though a better result would have been a coalition between Labour and the Libs. Where the Libs have their stronghold is in Scotland and Wales and they are still Celtic in many ways - perhaps the Libs (Celts) could dominate Europe again like they did for 800 years. Lastly, as I said before, which you always dismiss, I believe in a flat tax like most progressives I know with no exemptions. Your comments with regard to the classical Liberal and today's Liberal is without intellectual merit. The root of Liberal is "FREE" liber and here is the definition of Progressive: Promoting or favoring progress toward better conditions or new policies, ideas, or methods: a progressive politician; progressive business leadership Proceeding in steps; continuing steadily by increments: progressive change. 1. Ahead of current trends or customs: advanced, forward, precocious. See precede/follow. 2. Not narrow or conservative in thought, expression, or conduct: broad, broad-minded, liberal, open-minded, tolerant. See attitude/good attitude/bad attitude/neutral attitude, wide/narrow. 3. Favoring civil liberties and social progress: liberal, liberalistic. See politics.

The intent is good - the word Aristocrat is immaterial to the intent. Tell me Mike, in a not so called perfect world, who would be responsible for the administration of one's Inalienable rights.

P.s. Read George Orwell's "Animal Farm"

Good dream Mike. Presently equality is defined by your bank account and your influence.

Archer, Obviously, you don't know me and only read into my commentaries what you wish to believe. For the record, and I'll make it easy for you, I believe in an effective government, which usually means less government; I believe in a flat tax off the top (no exemptions), no subsidies, no individual or organization funding of political parties, a government and its worker's who have the same deal as the people, I'm against mandatory health insurance, though I am for universal health care, I'm against religious organization funding political issues, and so on - I am considered a Progressive Liberal. And, why I'm on this blog I have no idea but it fun listening to different points of view. By the way TJ and BF were good man and did wonderful things (age of enlightenment) but they couldn't keep their trousers up.

Archer, well done! that's exactly what they believe. They believe in government reform, civil liberties, natural rights, an educational system built on understanding and not just knowledge. In the early part of the century they were against child labor, better working conditions for women, and regulating tenement housing. "The Criminality of the State" is exactly what American could be charge with today there is very little difference.

Archer, again you fail the test of history. Ok, so who was Rebecca Burwell (a 16 yr old girl)? Elizabeth Walker (TJ wasn’t even man enough to defend his honor). He married Wayles only months after her husband and his son died. Martha Crosway (who had numerous affairs and the author a famous love letter to TJ “Head of the Heart” All this while his pal BF was doing the same thing in Paris. Then of course there was sally Hemings and Betty Brown. Here’s some reading material. List provided by Sam Sloan. The Slave Children of Thomas Jefferson. Thomas Jefferson's Family Tree . Washington Post: Jefferson Paternity Called Likely. Jefferson in Paris. Taking New Measurements for Jefferson's. DNA Evidence Proves that Thomas Jefferson fathered at least one child by Sally Hemings. DNA Tests Offer Evidence That Jefferson Fathered a Child With His Slave. The Truth About The Thomas Jefferson DNA Study, by Herbert Barger. Hemings and Jefferson: A Genealogical Enigma. The controversy continues on the Hemings-Jefferson genealogy. Bill Clinton vs. Thomas Jefferson. Woodson Family History. Jefferson-Hemings DNA Testing: An On-Line Resource. Sally Hemings Paternity. A Contrary View - by Someone who still does not Believe it!. Barbara Chase-Riboud, who knows zero about Thomas Jefferson. Thomas Jefferson's Poplar Forest. At Monticello, Where Jeffersonian Genius Is Held Self-Evident. The Washington Post: Tests Link Jefferson, Slave's Son. "The Slave Children of Thomas Jefferson" "The Slave Children of Thomas Jefferson" Sam Sloan's Family Tree. Thomas Jefferson's Family Tree. Look up other histories of slave - there are many examples of men in high place's providing freedom to their slaves regardless of State policy. From the Greeks right up to the abolitionists.

Jim, you never give up do you. Unfortunately, TP is right, but it shouldn't be so - occasionally in history there have been good men that represents the people. But, GREED, bigotry, intolerance, and ego get in the way. Yes, we are still ten feet from the cave.

It has the capacity to do great things but rarely does - in more cases its the latter.

It goes wothout saying but it still deserves five stars. "you may say I'm a dreamer" over seven million have already vied this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okd3hLlvvLw Please pass on

Justin are you sure you got the country correct if so then its a reflection of the USA. Archer, I don't know where you are coming from but its certainly not the realm of reality. Your argument is prejudice to the point of rhetorical arrogance. Your list of those who are, in your eye's, greedy is like reading a Glenn Beck script - perhaps you should apply for the job. Your commentary was sounding reasonably intellectual until you decide to enter the world of lies and falsehood "Don't blame Greed" The system of Debt creation was most definitely not a socialist initiative; it was the crime perpetrated by the capitalists and their banking friends - who are mostly GOPers. All societies self-destruct, don't just pick and choose like you always do. Though you did get it right "...democracy completely self-destruct (can you somewhat self-destruct?). By the way it was not a pure democracy - I suppose pure is a subjective term. Yes, when I work as a wage slave getting only a minuscule wage compared to the million made from my labor I want health care. You guys are way out of touch with what actually occurs; you are so blinded by your importance, your own ego, etc. that you forget to see the oil and the grit that is responsible for making the industrial wheels turn. As for the rest of your "GREED" examples, well, they are not worth a retort as they are arrogant and childish and not becoming your intelligence - the people are just used; they are less than pawns on a board full of corrupt corporatist's. Archer, though I do agree wholeheartedly with your last sentence.

Terrible statement - has no honor. Sorry.Justin- that will be the day... Jefferson was also adulteress and slave owner. Your rhetoric stands by your deeds.

The Greeks, unlike apathetic Americans, demonstrate when they are being cheated and lied to. It was due to the AMERICAN financial fiasco (the greed and total deregulation of wall street) that has brought Europe down with it. It has nothing to do with socialism - get a life...

Funny!

All order is politic as is all life. What will save us from the fascist right is to stop feeding it! The strategy of divide and conquer is used most effectively by the media and the plutocracy who owns it. Derivatives are the social welfare program of the Plutocrats.

The intent is good.

Mike, I agree with you....

P.s. John, very good. Please stay commenting - its good to hear a sensible voice amongst the flurry.