“Government can do something for the people only in proportion as it can do something to the people.”

Government can do anything with us, for us, to us or to others as long as the doers believe they are paid with strips of paper and as long as the majority uin this God-forbidden and unconstitutional democracy will ridicule and punish the few who want God's laws and the Constitution upheld.

I like it

If you want 50 cents from the government, you must first give it $5.00. What a deal. The more you want from the government-the more you must give it.

A little TJ really keeps the socialists away.

Although not as smart as Waffler, Jefferson was still a great man.

Terrible statement - has no honor. Sorry.Justin- that will be the day... Jefferson was also adulteress and slave owner. Your rhetoric stands by your deeds.

My goodness, RBE, are you possessed with the ghost of Waffler?

RBESRQ, resorting to personal attacks, how very liberal of you. On a side note I believe you mean adulterous, unless you are implying that Jefferson was secretly a woman, dressed as a man. If so, I'm not even sure how to approach your comment.

To curse Thomas Jefferson is to curse your own supposed 'rights.' It is because of him that we have the Declaration of Independence, which by the way, originally had a clause that would have made slavery in the new United States illegal (the clause was taken out by South Carolina in exhange for their unaimous support of the American Revolution). RBE, correct me if I am wrong, but I believe you were/are a British citizen by birth. Allow me to correct a bit of your condemnation of Jefferson. 1st, he was no adulterer -- his only wife died in 1782, so if you are referring to his relationship with Sally Hemings, one of his slaves, it was not during his marriage to his wife. Secondly regarding Jefferson's apparent hypocrisy regarding slavery, Jefferson was in debt and his slaves were held as collateral and he was prevented from freeing them. Also, freed negro slaves were not permitted in Virginia. He treated his slaves better than most -- he educated many of them and they held important positions in his household. He ever tried to abolish slavery during his lifetime and declared trading in slaves illegal in the US during his presidency. He also prevented the further importation and sale of slavery into the country, and slavery was prohibited in any new state joining the Union from there on. Jefferson was born into a nation of slavery -- a practice for THOUSANDS of years. I dare say, abolition of slavery was a revolutionary idea. Today, people are begging to be slaves of the statist government still growing. Is there nothing of America that you value? Or is it still falling short of being the end all, permanent care taker of all -- i.e. master of us all? Maybe if you had children (maybe you do -- some gays have children) you might think differently about loading them up with an unpayable debt (i.e. slavery) to pay for 'universal health care' and other welfare programs (all of which, by the way, are unfunded and require massive new debts). If you really valued liberty and acknowledged the individual responsibility that comes with it, perhaps you might be able to put all this into context...

Government can do something for the people as far as people let them do it. At that point, a line is crossed.

More excellent words from an excellent leader.

Archer, again you fail the test of history. Ok, so who was Rebecca Burwell (a 16 yr old girl)? Elizabeth Walker (TJ wasn’t even man enough to defend his honor). He married Wayles only months after her husband and his son died. Martha Crosway (who had numerous affairs and the author a famous love letter to TJ “Head of the Heart” All this while his pal BF was doing the same thing in Paris. Then of course there was sally Hemings and Betty Brown. Here’s some reading material. List provided by Sam Sloan. The Slave Children of Thomas Jefferson. Thomas Jefferson's Family Tree . Washington Post: Jefferson Paternity Called Likely. Jefferson in Paris. Taking New Measurements for Jefferson's. DNA Evidence Proves that Thomas Jefferson fathered at least one child by Sally Hemings. DNA Tests Offer Evidence That Jefferson Fathered a Child With His Slave. The Truth About The Thomas Jefferson DNA Study, by Herbert Barger. Hemings and Jefferson: A Genealogical Enigma. The controversy continues on the Hemings-Jefferson genealogy. Bill Clinton vs. Thomas Jefferson. Woodson Family History. Jefferson-Hemings DNA Testing: An On-Line Resource. Sally Hemings Paternity. A Contrary View - by Someone who still does not Believe it!. Barbara Chase-Riboud, who knows zero about Thomas Jefferson. Thomas Jefferson's Poplar Forest. At Monticello, Where Jeffersonian Genius Is Held Self-Evident. The Washington Post: Tests Link Jefferson, Slave's Son. "The Slave Children of Thomas Jefferson" "The Slave Children of Thomas Jefferson" Sam Sloan's Family Tree. Thomas Jefferson's Family Tree. Look up other histories of slave - there are many examples of men in high place's providing freedom to their slaves regardless of State policy. From the Greeks right up to the abolitionists.

DNA testing has confirmed only one child from his slave, Sally Heming. Interesting how a person who must deal with being considered 'immoral' because of homosexuality would be so quick to judge the morality of Jefferson (who did BTW free his closest slaves before his death -- the rest were sold to pay off his debts). But with such evidence of human failings even among some of the greatest minds and liberators, how can you put so much faith in our current leaders?! Clinton was the most embarassing president in my lifetime for his absolute lies and sexual misconduct. BTW, who then deserves your respect as a great leader and liberator of the people? Gandhi? ;-) Kennedy? ;-) Obama? How about Hitler -- he was a vegatarian, never smoked, didn't drink, and didn't have nefarious sexual relations... and furthered the same rhetoric as the left does today. I am curious where your supposed 'compassion' comes into play in life. Please enlighten me.

Da Waffler Speaks: Jefferson has spoken the truth here. Government is a coming together for a common puropose. Most common purposes require the input of common labor, funds etcetera. The only source of these is the people and the results are for the people. I am glad some have remembered the ghost or at the least the spirit of da Waffler, sorry I have been absent from these hallowed blogs for a number of days. Thanks Jim K for the complement and yes you to can be a great man! It starts with using your mind and putting things in writing. The only reason we think of the writers of the past as great men is becaucse they created a record. There are many great men at all times and everywhere but they do not always create a record. Read Ralph Waldo Emersons essay on Independence for more about this.

PS: The Essay is entitled Self-Reliance. If you put the great men of the past like Jefferson so high on a pedestal and bow down to him are you not creating a Golden Calf that stops you from doing your own thinking. Bottom line Jim K. Jefferson, Washington et al were men and so are you and I. They would be appalled at your worship of them.

Gee whiz Waff, I don't worship any man, but I do respect our founding fathers. They were brilliant.

Slaves, the oldest traded commodity, socialism, the oldest form of management, of slaves. The leisure State of monarchies enjoyed through the oppression of the common man. The front line of freedom and liberty for all, a time of transition. Taskmasters of today, passive withholding agents, bowing to the will of the state god. selling of freedom for the sake of a little liberty. Unless hiring of undocumented illegals, for the sake of greed, and furthering of the oppression of legal citizens. Slave mentality, lazy, scared, and arrogant, without faith. wanting something for nothing, and could care less the source. " Let him that is without sin cast the first stone ! Our Founding Fathers stood in the hot seat of all time, willing to take the heat, based upon their faith in something else besides man ! God, the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.

The State is an organization of the few who exploit the many. There have been a few times and places with governments that were not states-Medieval Ireland and Iceland, and the native American tribes were some of them. The American Indians did exploit women; the Irish seem to have done the best in that regard.

Jefferson had it exactly right, which is why he also said that that government governs best, that governs least.

The natural state of liberty and freedom. Knowledge does always go full circle. Yet to perceive distance takes a much broader overview. The Truth concerning this understanding of Breadth, length, depth, and height, rules of natural law that govern our way of life, a manifold wisdom reveling our relationship with the earth and the heavens above. As with the four corners, wisdom, justice, judgment and equity. These are four corners of [ a ] heaven, the host and all their influence demanding accountability of the earth below, this in harmony with the binding authorities ordained by the Creator. Each house and its dictates bring understanding of ones origins and mindedness. And as applied Breadth, length, depth and height are a reference to the Universe. When measured and laid in the balance, " Have ye not known ? have ye not heard ? hath it not been told you from the beginning ? have ye not understood [ from ] the foundations of the earth ? It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens like a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in: that bringeth the princes to nothing; he maketh the judges of the earth as vanity. ( Isaiah 40:21,22,23 ) You can put stock in our Founding Fathers judgments concerning our type of, authority of, and ordaining of Liberty and Freedom available and declared to the world.

RBESRQ - Without the author of the Declaration of Independence, i.e., Thomas Jefferson you more than likely would not be practicing any Free Speech rights on this site ... because the U.S. Constitution would not have been promulgated let alone ratified. Your Unalienable Natural Rights would never have been known to you.
You more than likely would not have had the ability to write let alone the ability to read because you would have more than likely been a serf, chattel or more than likely a slave to whatever despotic Emperor, King or Czar held the power and control over North America .... because the founding sovereign Limited Government Republic would never have come into existence.
In fact ... the likelihood of your chance to have even been born would have been very minimal if the founders such as Thomas Jefferson and George Washington had not succeeded in their Revolutionary War against Great Britain and its despotic king.

Mary, RBE is a British ex-pat in the States (I think he is posting as 'Robert, Somewhere in Europe' now). From what I have gathered from his posts, his view of liberty and personal responsibility is skewed by his monarchical conditioning. Like most who have been taught to remain subservient to authority, he doesn't have a problem with being a subject or a ward of the state. He is fine with the State providing permits, licenses, food, housing, and health care -- his complaint is the poor quality of social services that leave most wanting. I find most Brits do not have a concept of real liberty and the responsibility that goes with it. The idea that the individual is 'sovereign' over himself in every way is a foreign concept.