I agree there is enough blame to go around, Logan. But I would suggest that socieites since time immemorial have had some type of organization in their farming systems. Today people are talking about "spontaneous organization" of systems. This spontaneous way of systems of economics and business, towns and villages of org and providing goods and services is a good thing as is some government assistance. As this sites preeminent researcher Logan can you tell me where the construction "republic not a democracy" originated. Several in my town have said it to me. When I correct them they see my point and can't actually recall where they learn the phrase. It seems obvious to me that there is some central source for the use of the offending construction. In the same vain some or one on this site has stated that the IRS is a Puerto Rican corporation with no jurisdiction in the 50 states. If true none of us are liable for income tax is apparently the message of this construction. This was also repeated to me unsolicited by an acquaintance here, so it seems that there is a central place for the orignination of this. Since Americans file and pay almost 3 trillion dollars in income taxes this is a pretty important issue. Can you research and inform us. Regards, Waffler.

You are really on to something Ken. I was offered a job in Winnepeg, Canada in 1976. I accepted and had to get permission from the Canadian governement. They declinded saying the job could be filled by a Canadian national. America for current Americans is a great idea however with politicians dividing us rather than uniting us that is a stretch. Many of us it seems would rather hire an illegal than a legal whom they would have to actually give benefits and raises.

Tom was unbalanced in this quotre. If only frarmers were that smart. Farmers destroyed Oklahoma and we had the dust bowl, southern Illinois was destroyed by the lack of using contour farming (they did not even know what it was), the wasted land was purchased by Sam and it is now restored to be called The Shawnee National Forest, Florida Crackers destroyed the land southwest of Tallahassee with there turpentine busniess and it has been restored by Sam to be The Appalachicola National Forest, river pollution from fertilizer use has destroyed much, the Gulf south of Louisianna is called a dead zone due to nitrate pollution, need I mention farming use of DDT. Farmers are not as smart as ol' Tom thinks they were. Jim K. the people you refer to above are less than 15% of the US population. They are incapable of electing anyone. According to John Mc we have been a socialist country since 1913 since income tax is progressive. If we have to wear labels then lets just get use to it and stop talking about it. We tweak the progressive system but it is still progressive. Hell even a flat percent tax like say 10% is progressive in that the more you make the more absolute tax you will pay. Lets drop the labels and be pragmatic like the Republican C. Powell. The Republican right wing is about as cute as they come what with thier "pro American towns" versus their "anti-American towns" etcetera. And yeah the internet says Sarah ate that moose that her ex inlaw shot. She is the biggest snake to ever run for national office. Mike may be interested that Joe The Plumber was a member of the now defunct Natural Law Party basically transcendentalist meditation folk, Is that what you are into Mike or is that what you are smoking as they say?

Farmers are free to ignore their county USDA Department of Agriculture agent or what ever he is called. The secret to modern agricultural abundance and the world over population and obesity problem was the invention and promotion of the Faber-Bosch nitrogen process in which nitrogen is pulled from the air made into nitrates and put on the soil. That and many similar inventions and processes were aided and abetted by governments and created the green revolution. Jim K. it looks like as of today Americans want a Socialist Country since the polls are 5 to 10 percent in Obama's favor. (The beginning of government involvement in ag business was when Joesph told the Pharaoh of Egypt to store up grain against the seventh year famine.)

"spending money to be paid by posterity", "swindling futurity". Wow! This is the heart of economics, I mean farmers sweat and toil and use some of their seed for sowing rather than eating, now they buy seed and fertilizer hoping to repay when the harvest comes in. A cash economy with out credit and future payments is hard to imagine, no house mortgages etcetera. It is about what the Amish do?

Credit Unions!

Tony D. first time I have seen you on this site. Stick around and you will find that most responses are Pavlovian inspired. Most would appear to be not free thinking people.

Clinton Admin did start the practice and 8 years of Bush with 6 years of a Republican Congress continued it. I think we need a more responsive government. Have no fear O is going to make government cool again!

Sadly they don't follow the Austrian school even in Austria. Weve been following the Chicago school here and see where it has gottte us. Nice to know some people (not referreing to you Bryan) know everything about everything and got time to do research also, even if they cannot decipher phone constructions like "the US is a republic and not a democracy". I had a sense that what I was referring to was just a little bit funny. I did not know that all folks all the time want to treat this site as if it is a Phd dissertation. Lighten up Logan! At least you now believe the US is a majority ruled society.

I don't know what the hell you are talking about Mike, but that is not unusual. Fascism is usually contrasted with Communism. Under communism the "state" owned everything. Under fascism the "state" formed links to corporations to assert its will. Hitler with German industrialists etc. The problems wtih both systems is the same as the problem we have with many of the views on this site , both systems were undemocratic. Your posts don't make good banter and are usually an exercise in stupidity. Exeercise is good for the mind so if it helps you keep it up but it is not helpful to anyone else, stop kidding yourself.

J individuals are persons and persons are individuals. The US Tax code says "there shall be a tax on any individual who". Some argue that they are not an individual but a person. The dictionary defines a person as an individual and vice a versa. I disagee with your construction Mike. The state is not a co-creator just a recognizer of the facts on the ground, alas, "a new corporation has come into being". They may however, I agree, estop or deny an incorporation that is for the purpose of performing any illegal act.

Sounds like he was predicting the oil crises of the summer of 2008. The price of essential gasoline got out of reach of all but the rich, money became worthless in comparison to that price, and the fraud of speculators could be concealed no longer. The fact that oil prices went from near $150 this summer to $75 bucks today is scandalous. Some say oil prices was a contributing cause to the foreclosure problem as people had to choose between gasing up and paying the mortgage.

Obviously he was referring to the Northern Yankee politico economic system that distributed the fruits of labor to laborer not much better than did Southern slavery. Manipulation is the name of the game and I guess it is always with us even in the present politcal season

I hate to admit it but I am with Mike on this one. The Germans and Austrians are as in bad shape as anyone else right now. Sound money would seem to be freedom from inflation/deflation and banking is free hell not only free but they pay you interest. Just don't borrow from them!

Mike my diesel F250 ways 8800 lbs. and gives me 26 miles to the gallon at 46 miles per hour.

Billy Yank you know a thing or two about name calling, and you started it with me. Your confusion and bedazzlement is simply the fact that you are blinded by the bright light of my truth. Since this is liberty-tree I assume I am not suppose to be in lock step with these guys. There is a cabal here that certainly appear to be only goose stepping Rush Limbaughites.

A corporation is simply the coming together of inidviudals (stockholders) in a united effort. A corporation is under law a "person". Because stockholders come and go at will the underlying human face or humanity of the corporation changes and it seems to have a life of its own. But it is still "a person", except with the salient feature/ability to raise large amounts of money and do big things. Mike you are wrong about them being "creations and entities" of the state. States reconginze and acknowledge their creation just like they acknowledge a humans birth but anyone can form a corporation almost at will. I could start one tomorrow and be the 100% stockholder. One of the 50 states would recognize it. The US Govt simply accepts the existance based on state law.

Logan the quote is just something I picked up somewhere second hand, I mean I did not see in Socrates own hand writing or hear it from his own voice. I was lead to believe as I believe many have that he said that. I look it up today and did not find it but found a similar sentiment of his. The source is the not the main issue. The statement still has some inate truth to it. Since we are only tenants on this planet for 100 years we are in fact renters. But you are the prideful research guy so why don't show off your pirde and let us know.

I think we need some quotes from the rest of her book. Here we are only getting the Tragedy Part, where is the Hope Part. She says this junta took control not later than 1920, she wrote this 46 years later in 1966, it is now 2008 42 years since her prophesy. A total of 88 years have elapsed since the junta took control. When or when is this internal destruction to occur? The resilience of the American economy and people are not so easily destroyed. I am sure folks like Billy Yank will be confused and dazzled by my response here because it is not the music he wants to hear. Rather then destroying us internally some of these guys gave us Rockefeller Center in New York, The Winterthur Museum in Delaware (Du Pont) and were the preservators of Colonial Williamsburg.

Poor silent Cal, he can't even get a rating on his quote.

All societies are in league with their "private businesses". Society and business that work against each other is counterproductive. If a business does not perform a useful function it will disappear. The issue in "state capitalism" is in how decisions are made. We are now seeing a merger of state (society) and corporate power in the effort to go to alternative energy. Unfortunately Fascism was much more than Benito's simple formulation.

Archer you always see with a jaundiced eye. As Billy Yank says I confuse and dazzle. You are always confused. I agreed with the Sheriff from Montana and you did not even recognize it. Getting money without working for it is the problem. From the point of view of the receipient it does not matter what the source is. Daddies money is just as corrupting as Uncles money. The Sheriff talks about the beauty of having faith in your own natural, strength and beauty. Having ones hand out for inheritance and being a couch potatoe, which you have often expressed a distaste for, is exactly what he is talking about. You abhor "welfare" making people lazy but its okay to make your own lazy, yeah okay I get it, I don't like it but I get it. What I get is that you speak out of whichever side of your mouth that suits you.

Right on Roberto, some people on this worship quotes from the backwoods. The remoter and more obtuse the better.

I am easy to get down to a tee and easy for many to think I make no sense. Because many come on this site with a miserable attitude and are just looking for compnay, "misery loves company". Billy claims he knows the American people and he is willing to dictate for the American people. He is like the Alaskan Palin who when in Pennsylvanina said "We here in Penna. believe this" Who the hell is We Mrs. Palin. In a speech to Alaskans she said what she believed about an issue and followed it up with "I know that you believe that also". What a phony demogogue. Serious conservatives are dropping her and McCain in droves and are embarrased by her. I am embarrased every day by the likes of Logan (America is a Republic not a democracy, although god bless him he is improving) Mike (victimless crimes), and Archer (the IRS is Puerto Rican with no jurisdiction in the 50 states). And now confused and dazzled Billy Yank. I stand exactly by my words Billy Boy, if you don't like government, community, state whereby we have water service, sewers, fountains, public parks, statuary, and all of the trappings of civil and social life then do away with government, community, and state. You will then not have to go to a dusty Mexican or African village you can have it right here. I assume Billy you are now more confused and dazzled than ever you ignorant uneducated scum.

Billy why don't you say what you believe rather than putting words in others mouth. You just want to argue with yourself. My step-father is a direct descendant of John Balch who arrived in Mass. in 1625. Yes the Plymouth Colong and the Puritans were a highly organized society/government that accomplished a great deal and laid down the framework of government and society that enabled Americans to proceed west and establish successful communities throughout this country. I was not suggesting moving in order to stifle free speech but only to respond the need for some folks to be free of the trappings of "state". Where people are unorgainized and their is no state we have more individual freedom but less services, take your pick is all I said. I love fending for myself in the wilderness and I also like the comforts of society and the "state". Get a grip Billy.