Jack Green has it right. Madison started with the word "IF" a big big word. Madison is simply thinking out loud and mulling over an issue. Of course everyone wants limited government but most would enjoy unlimited resources flowing their way as some have in oil rich Arab countries but generally speaking we live in a world of limited money and resources which must be allocated wisely. Private decisions are best but government decisons for the "common good" "general welfare" are vital.

Those individuals who think they have kinowledge and that governments have none are a bit of a problem to don't you think. Government information about private persons is and of a right ought to be kept secret.

Oh! that man might care for his community in this way today, what a different environment we might live in.

I was only relating to the words in the quote "human felicity".

I think George is a bit shallow here and his comment is just a product of his immediate time and surrondings. If Mike and Jim might take the time to study the history of Anglo-American, Franco American, Canadian American etcetera friendships over the years they have gain some enlightenment. Nation to nation favours are no different than person to person favours. They are predicated on the notion that we need each other. Of course the favours of one nation to another are expected to be returned one day. I am not surprised that Mike and Jim cannot understand interdependency this way. Hell they cannot even understand the idea of community and community school.

Washington may have been the first "no drama" President. Now we will have no drama Obama. Hopefully O will also concentrate on promoting happiness.

Richard yes I do compare Gore to Jefferson in the sense that Gore has devoted himself to the scientific challenges of the day via the political realm. When in Congress it has been said that Gore was the most studied and knowledgeable on issues like battlefield nukes etc. He was involved in the Governments creation of the internet concept and his expounded the importance of environmental science for decades. Since Jefferson was farmer and Gore comes from farm country I think they would have gotten along smashingly both in science and politics.

Mike once "YOU" start defining what creativity is you have effectively ended all possibilities at creativity. A creative society will not know what is next but will be looking forward to it.

Bush was his fathers son eight years ago and still is, his fathers name is all he ever had and still is. The Presidency is a "ball buster" thank God we still have men willing to step up.

His dilemma seemingly cannot be avoided. While true science is wonderful it must be explained to a politcally sustained and operated world where humanity is ruled not by truth but by associations of persons and politics. So the truth of earth science and environmental science is useless with the ability to explain it to others. Thank God for men like Jefferson and Gore, men of science and politics and conscience.

Why it is that you all who believe that teaching should be up to the parents then complain that the community school does not teach morals or correct morals really bothers me. Why do you not expect the parents to teach morals? I think I know the answer of many it is not community school that you are against, your opinions are caused by a subliminal foundational anathema to paying for it, or paying for anything of a community nature.

Oh I forgot you five star guys are Mr. Snerd in drag and have as much validity.

He is a Libertarian hack so what kind of truth or honest analysis can we expect? I wish Libety-tree would give us much better quotes for talking points. Thank God Logan that we do not have Government education in America. Thank God that we have community schools that allow free association of children with different religions who attend to their religion together with their parents without regard to the community school. Thank God that these students share their own private religion with each other in respect and with a sense that outside of their diverse religions or sects they all have a commonality with each other. Most Americans in my opinion then carry this same idea of respect and at least brotherhood in diversity into the market place, Montesquie commented on this American phenomenon when he toured here in 1830. He wrote about how impressed he was that Americans worked together, dealt with each other in commerce, civic and frateral groups all week and then went to their various separate churches on Sunday, often one on each corner of downtown main street. Of course I understand that for decades or centuries the Roman Church disdained this mixing of their people with those who were not of or loyal to that Cities Church. For this reason the Vatican was generally anti-American or against its founding principles. If you want to read about subversive education study the Jesuit Orders' main reason for being in the business. I believe you will find that it is for the purpose of controlling society.

Who the f*** is Carolyn Lochhead and who the hell cares? This quote could have been made my by next door neighbor Mr. Snerd and have as much validity. Carolyn has apparently never heard of the Golden Apple Awards given to outstanding teachers. How many thousands of teachers compete for these awards and strive for that measure of excellence? She is shallow very very shallow. In my High School education I shall never forget Ms. Gibbons- Algebra, Mrs. DeBernidenis-Biology, Mr. Buchanan-Spanish 3 yrs, (he sent us cards every summer from some Spanish speaking country) need I go on. Mrs. Lochhead is full of it, at least she has not been to any schools I know about.

Obviously Agatha is talking about Britain pre 1976 so of course her point has nothing to do with the USA in 2009. On the other hand if it is just talking points we are looking for then I agree with WILL. Some kids and some people have been underachievers and bored all of their lives, Some have not, I see no dearth of creativity in our society or literature, etcetera. Just when Britain or at least Agatha thought their culture was devoid of creativity people like Andrew Lloyd Webber, and Elton John come along. Oh yeah did I mention Boy George. Maybe some on this site do not consider that creativity. What then is creativity may I ask, any takers?

That societies have protected themselves throughout history is I guess agreed on. That the US government is evil in this regard I deny. My good leaders are my neighbors and friends and the community in which I live. That they and I and especially you make mistakes I have no doubt. That we correct our mistakes, I think we try, that we or especially you are perfect I wholeheartedly deny. That all persons and societies make decisions concerning morality, defense and war and peace, unfortunaltely yes. That making moral choices is the cards that we have been dealt individually and thus as a society or nation I wholeheartedly agree. That some like yourself wish not to make these choices and wish to drop out of the process, that is self evident. So then why do you contribute to this community of opinion.

Public schoolers all have their various and diverse religions, philosphies, and politics. Nothing is banned except none of these is taught. They are free to get it elsewhere! Those who attend religious, philosophical or politcal based schools will get what they predetermine they want and nothing else. So much then for the idea of an education of discovery that public education provides. But that is waht home schoolers and church schoolers want a locked stepped education process for their children. The proof is on this site the other day where most want a locked step use of the Kings English, without any deviant forms like street talk, or regional usages etcetera. You are all for freedom Mike as like as you get to dictate curricula and style.

Their is both shallowness and truth in this quote. Of course all communities as the writer said teach children what is "important" for their personal success and for the success of the society or nation. The fact that he finds this in all countres means that their is not a secret effort on the part of government in the USA to subvert our children. Can you guys dig this, get this. THERE IS NO INTENTIONAL ATTEMPT TO SUBVERT OUR CHILDREN BY GOVERNMENT! Public shcool free of relgious intolerance, censorship, where all relgions can come together in respectful diversity is the best thing we have going in this country. If children were each educated in select schools based on religion, wealth, or priviledge consider what kind of society we might wind up with. That thought and teaching and customs gravitate towards something called the "norm" goes without saying, thus Native American languages, life styles etc. melded into the larger "normal" society. This is the way it is.

Great idea! Thank God in the USA the people, the community run the schools and keeps it free and diverse. Free from censorship, undue interference but thought control institutions like church, and state. In every state and community children learn about their local history. The diversity of public education is one of its greatest assets, from its diverse student population to the diversity of its teachers. Not like private education where the students are chosen based on the religion or preference of their parents, based on their social or wealth status of their families, and the teachers are selected the same way including political persuasions. Public education is the freest form of education in the country. Like democracy many dislike it because it does not directly reflect their religion, opinons, or politics but those of "all of us". In short is free in more ways than one.

It is the historians duty to be a reporter and tell what it was people believed in, how they acted, who murdered who etecetera. He does not have to have opinions on the facts which of course may be hard to avoid, but he should strive for it. For a read on the notions, opinions and attitudes of the Middle Ages read and on how honest history should be written read "Waining of the Middle Ages" by the Dutch historian Huizinga, it is a clasic written in the 1920's and considered to be one of the best still today. It will change your life and understanding about the behaviours and attitudes that have come down to us from that period.

What the quote proves Mikhail is that people are always bitching about education. To get your head on straight try googling "Golden Apple Awards" etc. There are wonderful things going on in education everyday. Some inner city kid gets straigth A's and goes to Harvard etc. The kids in my town could care less about A's all the boys want to do is shoot deer and hogs and catch catfish. Are not all of these life styles part of being free. You want to make every one an A student and Yale Graduate. What inanity that would be. Thank God for diversity.

Mike community is your and I. Government is the city counselman, school borard member, etc. that you and I elect to lead us.

So why does the world beat a path to our colleges and universities. The best in the world. Your a flake Archer!

Proof positive that education is not in trouble today. This man said this circa 1800. So those that think US education has taken some kind of unending downward spiral should read this carefully. The problem is not with education but with most of y'alls attitudes.

Get a life Milton. Community education has been with human beings since the cave days. The educational systems in America and around the world are not government schools but community schools. The problem some have is deciding whether or not they are or wish to be part of the community. My guess is that most of the anti public school really do not want to be part of the community or part of the public.