Mike you are the one who brought up God in the first place in this blog. Can't you discuss anything from a human perspective, especially law, without bringing in some type of tyranny from on high. I simply agree that as Robert says we live in or should live in or would like to live in a community of equality, a community of "do unto others as you would have others do unto you" and expect others to do the same thing to you that is "expect them to do unto you as you would do unto them". You are the person Mike who always wishes to circumvent this type of community and union.

Editor Daniel Webster died in 1852 as you state under his name above but you state this quote was from 1883. What gives? This quote may have been from his early years as a "states rights" advocate. He certainly changed later becoming a strong advocate for the Federal Government. Many historians believe that by 1776 (175 years afte arriving here) the American people had become a different people as compared to their English and European cousins. Franklin is quoted as saying in the debate for independence "Americans are a new people and they deserve a new "NATION". The war was civil if you believe that Pennsylvanians and Virginians were brothers, sisters, and cousins. If you fail to dig that deep and see only a legal argument debated with guns then you may call it a war between states. I give it thumbs down because it is so untelling about what Websters whole political life was about.

PS: states in the US are bigger than many nations of the world. "Nations" of Europe have political subdivisons that are often called counties. With most of Europe now learning English as a common language it is becoming easier to see the emergence of the European nation.

Webster started out as a states rights politician, then became a corporate lawyer, federalist and stong supporter of the Fed. In the Webster-Hayne debate of 1830 he upheld the power of the fed, concluding with these words, "Liberty and Union, now and for ever, one and inseparable!" Logan is correct that Nation signifies culture and ethnicity. Since all of the European settlers of the American states were generally all of the same ethnicity it would seem Webster was wrong to call states nations. If you take 1,000 souls from each of the 13 colonies and put them in Illinois for example it would be a stretch to call that group a nation. My encyl. says, State: "One of a number of political communities or bodies politic united to form one sovereign state; specifically, one of the Unted States."

You guys really weaseled on this one. History is full of men who claim to know Gods Law and foist it upon the unsuspecting. This is the worse type of despotism. We see it constantly in so called religious groups from the FLDS to the Taliban and the divine right of kings etcetera. This is not the law Webster admired. When the law of God takes over every one knows it and it is not contentious. The basic law of God is democracy "all men are created equal" as exemplified in the old and new testament. The Judeo/Christian teaching that we all are equal before God is the route of are equality and democracy before each other. The religious despots will deny this. "Liberty and Union, now and for ever, one and inseparable!"

Research: Of nine industrialized countires: Canada, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Sweden, United Kindom, United States - The US ranks 2nd lowest in taxation as a percentage of Gross Domestic Product. It ranks 4th highest in debt as a percentage of GDP. Our taxes our 32% of GDP and our debt is 45%. The tax haul of these countries run from 31% for Japan to 59% for Sweden. The national/governmental debt runs from -5% for Sweden to +99% for Italy. Japan also has a high national debt amounting to 78%. Rebellion, always rebellion, but should we pause for a moment to consider facts.

Mike what if the jury ruled you out of your house in violation of the facts or law in the case, would you still be so happy about it. This quote is demonstrative of the reliance we must have on democracy and common sense and faith in each other in a democracy. I agree it takes faith and patience and juries and democratic majorities make mistakes. But we all know what Churchill said. As some say the Senate slows down the House so maybe the Judge is sometimes needed to slow down the Jury.

Thanks be given that we live in one of the lowest tax regimens in the industrialized world, Jefferson would be pleased. And once we put our economic house in order by creating a labor honoring society just as much as it is a wealth honoring society the better off we will be. When the debt is paid off and taxes reduced even further Jefferson might just jump out of his grave.

Bureaus were created in the late 1800's to add a degree of professionalism to government services as opposd to the politically appointed hacks who only took care of thei own. Only in a free wheeling America with one of the lowest tax regimes in the industrialized world (and an onerous defcit and national debt) call for a Tax Rebellion

Go back to the previous Adams quote Mike. He said and I paraphrase that our American government was founded on reason just like men build ships and houses based on reason. He says it was not based on divining with God or gods. I do have rights Archer and I rely on my good faith in my neighbors as they do also rely on good faith in me. Do you remember the Move movement in Philadelphia? They were ordered out and eventually were bombed out of their home legally.

Funk & Wagnalls: Republic = representative democracy, Let us move on and get over it. It is one and the same thing. My gosh and by golly we are a difficult bunch.

Mike I am trying to be fair, democratic, and republican with you and you just want to be dictatorial, autocratic, and an %#@ with me. Question: who says what is natural law, Moses, Allah, Buddah. John Kennedy said it well I think when he said, "On earth Gods work must be done by men." Those are the cards we are dealt, we must reason it out together and yes even with prayer. But we all know of dictatorial prayer leaders also. One man one vote is the only way for persons who truly believe in the equality of each other to handle their affairs. If one is allowed to claim to have a shaft of light from divinity or natural law he is then allowed to be the dictator.

Archer other than the description of "the style of this Confederacy" the Aricles of Confederation are kapute. If you check I think you will find that we now are a federal government and not a confederacy. The Constitution is clear on what type of government we have and it is one chosen by the people. Lincoln summed it up with his "of, by and for the people" phraseoloagy. The Artilces language however was carried over to the Constitution where a "republican" ie. democratic governent is guarranteed to the states. This is guarantee proves two things 1) the Feds-Nation has soverignity over the states. A state cannot choose a State King or dictator, thus all states have a "of, by and for" the people government aka democracy. No state is a Republic. That meaning of the word is that a geographic local has within its boundaries absolute authority to run its' own affairs however it sees fit. Thus we speak of the Republic of this and the Republic of that all over the world without any regard as to the type or manner of its syle of government. Thus the Repulic of Zimbabwe, Soviet Republics etcetera. A statute in Austin Texas says this, "Given by the Daughters of the Republic of Texas to the State of Texas". This given in circa 1902. This inscripture amply demonstrates the history of Texas. It was a free and independent nation with absolute authority within its' boundaries. It gave this up however and joined the Union becoming a state within the soverign United States. Again the Aricles were thrown out in favor of the Constitution "in order to form a more perfect union. I beleive Archer that only one sovereign can exist within a geographic territory. So people (which is pluaral) cannot be sovereign but "the people" (which is singular) can be and in America is sovereign. Robert I apologize for carrying on like this. I think it is vitally important that we understand this. We are all American brothers right, can we not even agree on stuff like this. I do believe there is a sentiment undergirding those who argue Archer, Mikes, and Logans side. The sentiment is we don't like the Feds. That is a valid sentiment but I don't feel it gives anyone the right to twist or misinterpret language, history or law. Happy 4th y'all!

Mike maybe you are to stupid to think folks can individually stop themselves from killing too many deer without some type of licensing or governmental control. By the way I think you meant 'no more" above rather than "know more". Are you to stupid to know that the name of our conferacy is the "the United States of America" and not the States United? Your buudy.

Here Adams overturns the idea of the dictatorship of natural or divined law. He says the people have an indefeasible (cannot be set aside or annulled) right to reform or alter their government to suit their own happiness. One man, one vote and each man in accordance with their own conscience. Natural law be damned is what Adams is saying. This takes some trust in ourselves and our fellows, a trust and faith that many are not prepared to extend thus they stauncly hold on to their right to claim natural or divine law anytime they wish.

Adams is great but I sense a slight dichotomy or glimmer of contention between the terms "nature" and "reason and senses". Reason is something men do with each other "come let us reason together". Nautre or natural law is something that is divined or declared and does not involve reason, it is declared as self evident. Now I will accept some self evident propositions but not many. Even the quintessential American self evident proposition "all men are created equal" is really just an adopted somewhat spirtualiezed convention. A useful one which I wholeheartedly support. Europe used the natural law or divine right of Kings as its source for authority and government for centuries. One could not reason against such "natural or divine law". Often what is "natural or common sense" in one society is totally opposite in another. People use the prhase as a means to get their own way. They will say, "Do it like this, it is natural and common sense." What they are really saying is, "Do it my way."

"Govern: to rule or control by right or authority." Let us not fool ourselves that Americans are innately different than any other people. Authority requires fear or maybe a better word might be respect in order to be effective. Government has been found to be a necessary evil in most of the world.The suppose difference is whether it is "of, by and for the governed."

Just for you Logan! "Over the last twenty years, inflation has been effectively tamed. GDP since 1982 has more than doubled, growing by 111%" quote dated 2004 by Tim Kane, Phd. Heritage Foundation.

Good Logan but correlation gives the observer a feel and for the serious observer a desire to understand the relationship or causation. I think it is a universal that people feel happier when they are in control rather than being controlled. Democracy appears to give people conrtol. Some like Mike would rather control people with the despot "natural law". The same old devil that enslaved Europe for centuries under the "natural law of Kings". I am with Voltaire on this one "crush the infamous thing".

You are a rhetorical thug Logan. There is approx. 500 billion green backs in circulation and it supports a 30 trillion dollar economy. I expect nothing less from you since you last used the term "The American Republic". The name or style of this nation has been set by the Articles of Conferation, it says "the style of this conferacy shall be "The United States of America". If you cannot get that straight I can fully understand that you cannot understand something like the word currency. Price inflation Logan is not a function of or directly connected with currency inflation. Do your research I see how the amount of currency has increased over the years.

Mike believes that people should kill as many deer as they wish. He thinks movable property like cars, boats, etcetera should not be required to be registered, thus assisting the theives and drug dealers. Mike has no faith in America or its people to govern its self or themselves but rather prefers to have us governend by the despot "natural law". This is the same despot that enslaved the people of Europe for centuries under the "natural right of Kings". One man one vote is the politcal altar at which I worship.

Archer there are different measures of funds like M1, M2 etcetera. But currency is defined as green backs.

We should always remember this during our political debates. Partisanship and failures to treat each other with respect when we may differ on inane details of policy is what may get us all hung. Bryan Ben started many "collectives", 1) the Post Office, 2) the Philly Fire Department, 3) Fire insurance company etcetera.

Thank God the people have not found that yet. There is only about 500 billion of currency in existence. If the people or the government could just print money then the government nor the people would be in debt. While our national debt is about 40% of our GDP many nations are worse, the Japaneese debt is 150% of their GDP. A World Values Survey of 350,000 people rated 55 nations in terms of happiness. The US came in at sixteenth and Denmark as first. The administrator of the survey said, "there is a strong correlation between happiness and democracy". Democracy is simply a form of government or organization of people wherein the most number of people, at any given time, feel that they are in charge of their lives. When the minority is in control this feeling of euphoria for the most number of people ceases and happiness plummets. Thus the least happy nations in the survey were Zimbabwe, Moldova, Belarus, Ukraine. Nations with little experience with democracy.

Being raised in Philly I have a soft spot for Ben. Those who always talk about the fed/treasury running the prresses confuse me. The supplu of green backs has not changed all that much over the years. That funds can be loosend by playing with things like fed rates, discount rates etc. is different but the actual supply of paper currency has not changed that much. Ben appears to be have been right. Paper currency is based on the good faith of the American people in each other. This is patriotism.