Warren the children should be taught to pray with out being seen, without pretence or public display. The Bible tells us to pray without ceasing. This does not mean that we have to all be hermits or monks but that we can pray while we work, read etcetera.

He is a propagandist Warren pure and simple. A 400 million dollar propagandist who thinks he has the truth just like those other guys. He teaches that global warming or climate change is a fraud etc.

Regan had some problem with nuanced thinking. Robert I generally respect you Bud but the existence of the Rabbi or teacher from Galilee know as Jesus has been documented and proven in so many ways, not that there were not some fictions also developed along the way. A message so powerful as the Christian one had to have a start. To doubt Jesus you would have to also doubt the apostles and secular Roman history of the time. Do you question that the founder of Buddhism or Confucianism ever existed? Christianity is stronger in America because it is free of political meddling in the secular schools and elsewhere. A Norwegian friend was surprised by the American religious scene and commented to me "Wow in America the People run the churches, in my country they are run by the government." A Hungarian sister-in-law said, "There are so many temploms (churches) here maybe that is why the American people are so happy and optimistic." Mike I again don't know what you are smoking because your sentiments are at total variance with my two friends above. May the separation of chruch and state continue is my prayer.

I like the America that we have made during and since the '60's based on the so-called "liberal revolution". It is just Americans responding to their better angels. I would not want to go back to segregation. Minority unemployment 3 or 4 times higher that the rest etcetera, polluted water, and air, and environmental degredation. Diversity training and respect for difference has been with us since 1776 when the founders recognized the need to protect it by enacting the Bill of Rights. The liberals simply reinforced and built upon the founders principals.

So there is hope for us here at liberty-tree since we are always controverting each other. Made 2009 will be the year of our great advance on liberty-tree. Which two Robert? Controversy results in catharsis and paradiginm (sic) shift.

Ken, Lenin and those guys have in common with Rush and many right-wingers in my opinion is tyrannical mentalities.

Right on Ken! Good thinking.

What I am saying is that democracy entails the process of discovering the truth. It does not have the truth. The guys like Rush, Lenin, Stalin and Hitler and many right wing types who think they have found the truth thus declare it for evermore and no one is allowed to say anything different. What I am saying is beware of those types. I am free enough to agree with any man but does not mean I follow them. Wanting less governent is a universal sentiment so I don't throw them into anything? What does that question have to do with this discussion anyway?

And most of the world is thankful that our monetary system is working and therefore by deduction thankful that the bankers and Treasury Secretaries are in collusion. What would you prefer Dave a monetary system that does not work and world leaders and bankers fighting and going to war with each other. We live in a world of opinion and credibility. A person who cries wolf to often or lies to much has a hard time to get his truth out later, but a consistant and trust worthy man will not, thus it does matter who is the truth teller at critical moments.

We know who discovered water at least I know when I discovered it, and when my son discovered it. It was the first time we went to bathe in the Atlantic Ocean. All living creatures discover things anew everyday and in every generation. It matters not who discovered anything if I have not personally also discovered it myself.

Such is the cost of freedom and democracy. It always seems that the guys who have the truth the absolute truth impose it by tyranny compare Lenin, Stalin and Hitler and right wing nuts compare Limbaugh and then it always seems to go that the people demand and clamor for a return to the tumultous marketplace and to be free of the "truth" once again.

Goethe is touching upon the "joy of philosophy", and the joy of thinking and doing mental experiments. Einstein conceptualized many of his ideas just by thought experiments before working out the mathematics.

We need to learn to be patient with ourselves and others to fully understand our and their truth. Outright BS as in Holocaust denial should be squashed like the cockroach that it is.

Mike all children who or whose parents wish it should be told how to pray and to pray while in school. Before each class, each test etc whatever is their preference. No one should interfere with a persons private and silent prayer. And God who knows our prayers and needs even before we ask will also see these thought prayers of these children. I don't anything about your humanist comments but I firmly believe that if you ask children about prayer in school they wont know anything about the issue or what you are talking about. If we dont generally have group led prayer in our adult work places why are we so up tight about this issue with kids who don't even want it.

Mike all children who or whose parents wish it should be told how to pray and to pray while in school. Before each class, each test etc whatever is their preference. No one should interfere with a persons private and silent prayer. And God who knows our prayers and needs even before we ask will also see these thought prayers of these children. I don't anything about your humanist comments but I firmly believe that if you ask children about prayer in school they wont know anything about the issue or what you are talking about. If we dont generally have group led prayer in our adult work places why are we so up tight about this issue with kids who don't even want it.

"John Brown's body lies a mouldering in the grave". Now there was a guy who lived this quote to the bitter end. Mike anyone can pray in school at anytime. Just don't disrupt others by vocalizing outloud, and to really please the Christian God go into the closet and pray so that others will not see you. I mean who are these school prayers trying to impress; each other or God! Organized prayer in school is not about a relationship with God but an effort of socializing children around a community idea of religon or god.

The new political environment has seemingly turned on its head the so called truth of the last eight years. Truth related to policy is all to often held hostage by parties and individual politians. I think Felix is giving credence to "pragmatism" and stiff arming political and philosophical dogmatism.

We will always be ruled by the main stream, Mike. I strongly support and invited all voices but tens of thousands is still a small number. Do you mean 10,000 or 99,000. There is a big difference between the two. You latch on to the fringe like Ron Paul. Being a minority and to perceive that you are not listened to or our persecuted does not make you correct. If being ignored and persecuted means that you are correct then the Jews are the most correct minority of all time.

"God spoke and the earth stood fast" is just a poetic way of describing the "big bank theory" or Einstein's E=MC2. There were many flood "fables" throughout the Middle East and some archeologists believe it may refer to an ancient city on the south shore of the Black Sea that was destroyed by flood. For those people it was the known world. So while the story might be a stretch as we read it, it may have had some basis in an historical event even if smaller than it is described. Most myths are of that nature and are not pure inventions. When the spoken history of peoples are researched it is often found that myths or story telling had something real that triggered the story.

Dems don't forget it. The reason the Republicans won is because Clinton was the only sitting President who had the guts to sign the Brady Bill. When he ran he said he would sign it and he did. Reagan and Bush I would never stand up like men against the NRA while in office but after Clinton signed it they said, "it is just common sense" and "we already have that in California". They just had no guts as Presidents. The NRA used the issue to fire up the rednecks and the knee jerkers.

People in the thousands does not well correlate to a population of 300 million very well. The larger group cannot pay attention to every group of 1000 people but I agree that they should not be silenced. The ignore concept I refer to is one of hearing but paying little heed. I know a lot of things, I even talk about stuff sometimes. Does it appear Archer is either ignoring, dismissing me or trying to silence me?

Apparently not silenced since you heard it Mike; ignoring something and silencing something are not the same thing. Being ignored or persecuted does not translate into being correct. Being silenced does not translate into being correct only translate into a loss of freedom.

Nietzche responded to the question, "Why do people lie" with the answer "Because they are liars". You are either a noble person or you are not.

A great insight my Mr. tee from Pretoria although our criticizm and comments are part of this site. Mr. tee as great as these men were they are not "gods" and just because they wrote things down does not mean that we and the people "whose lives are being saved" by these quotes cannot think for themselves and maybe even we can learn from each other (with the exception of Archer that is). I like RKA's tilt toward pragmatism, I think that is the essence of "the light under are feet". For the religious minded like Mike I have heard it said that "good religion is common sense" which is to say that good religion is pragmatic.

You guys prove the falsity of the quote. History is up for review and discussion by the serious minded historian. I don't think RBESRQ said Jesus did not exist only that men chose and selected what should be considered sacred texts. Yes men edit and mythologize for fun and profit. Myths are easy carriers of some truth about character. Much historical investigations have proven that there is often some small element of truth behind the biggest myths. Common men often do not read anything let alone serious history and analysis. There are however people who do.