“Wherever is found what is called a paternal government, there is found state education. It has been discovered that the best way to insure implicit obedience is to commence tyranny in the nursery.”

This is exactly what is going on in the USA. If you don't get your kids into a government school by the time they are 3, they might not grow up to be "goot little citizens". Get them indoctrinated early.

This thought was not lost on Hitler. Ergo: Kindergarten and the Hitler Youth. Today kids aren't being taught "patriotism" so much as they are being taught of the "Global Village". AKA: A world enslaved...

Our 'Uncle' is no longer our servent but, now or paternal slave master with mandatory gosple indoctrination, cradle to grave.

Most communities around the world seek to educate children. School boards are grioups of elected locals. Without mandatory education laws we would live in a world of illeterates. It is a value judgement as whether or not illiteacy is better than literacy. I believe that there is a quantum leap in quality of life and "advancement" of the race caused by education and literacy.

America was a literate country way before mandatory 'education.' Waffler is obviously a perfect product of state schooling as his stated opinions rarely contradict the collectivist teachings he so adamantly defends. I have friends that went all the way through Ivy League schooling and are now simple drones for the statist machine, while others I know quit school early and are independent and productive members of society who actually THINK and hold opinions of their own. I wholeheartedly agree with this quote. BTW, university education now costs about $40K+ per year -- I bet any kid with a library card could get a better education if they merely had the inclination. The education 'system' is designed to keep people in their respective moneyed classes, and having travelled the world, I have seen first hand how America's students are now among the worst educated and least knowledgeable worldwide.

Archer I agree with you wholeheartedly that the concept of education is to fill individuals with certain bodies of knowledge. This does not mean that they may not pursue other bodies of knowledge when and if they encounter them. Thus boards of folks do decide what bodies of knowledge freshman must pursure and the ability to select for oneself increases as he advances. Since as you have so eloquently stated elsewhere "truth": is absolute all paths will ultimately converge on the truth, thus some twists and turns will be pointed out for us. If education were not organized in some fashion each individual would have to learn everything on their own by experimentation. Organized education is the cheapest and fastest way to achieve knowledge. If we all, each and every one of us, had to invent algebra, geometry, medicine, anatomy etc from scratch rather than relying on books and those heroes of knowledge from the past exactly where do you think we might be. Colleges and universities are not government Archer. You jump from your mantra of government school to expunge all institutions and call them statist. Taking your logic Archer if we closed all schools, colleges and universities we could become literate again, believers in the Gold Standard and people would be natural highly educated doctors, scientists etcetera. You may call be a collectivist whatever that is in return I will say that all your opinions point to is a Pol Pot or Hitlerian scorched earth policy which would blow up all buildings of learing and execute all teachers.

Hilary has said that the government needs to take over the raising of the children because the parents can not be trusted to do it. She advocated this in a college paper she wrote.

You are right Waffler as long as it is education. But what we have is more and more indoctrination. We are being steered toward socialism at an ever increasing rate. Socialism has to be taught to the little ones with out being exposed to a conflicting view point. If a balanced approach to teaching is used 80 percent would not come out as intended. That is why the young tend to be left and mature to be right. The media and entertainment industry are intent on keeping opposing information to liberalism from being perceived in anything but a bad light. That is why they are intent on ending talk radio and Fox news. They can not debate their ideas because experience has taught them that they will loose. So opposing views must be eliminated as in Global Warming. Make it so anyone not falling in line can't get a job or get into a situation that they could influence others.

You are losing me a little bet Warren as did Archer with his "drones of statist machine" and "independent productive members of society". I think people in general including you and I hedge our use of language, words and thoughts in order to suit our immediate purposes. It is common knowledge among many that Roger Ailes and his Fox News is a politcal operation, many call it Fox Noise and for good reason. Give me McNeil-Lehrer (now deceased) and I would be happy. Warren I would be leery of any news program or politcal program that keeps telling you "Listen to us because we are fair and balanced." Hell they are doing a sales job on you right there not even letting you make up your own mind and you don't even know that they are doing that to you. Warren a further word on this prayer in school thing that the right is so big on. Did not Jesus tell us to go into our closets and pray privately to God and not to make a big show of it in public? Why don't we teach our kids what Jesus taught us to do. Global warming is science not politics. What if anything societies or nations wish to do about the science via public policy is a policy or political question Lets let the facts be the facts and not change them for our own purposes. Alwasy a pleasure conversing with you Warren.

J Carlton your aspersions on Kindergarten should not go unresponded to. Here is what one encyclopedia says: ""First one was opened in 1837 (AT LEAST 90 YEARS BEFORE HITLER) and patterend after the School of Infancy established in 1650 Switzerland." Contrary to being a government school "the Prussian government, fearing that the kindergarten was fostering revolutionary ideas, because of its emphasis on initiative, placed a ban on the school in 1851." "The influence of the kindergarten method is profound and the methods introduced by Froebel were in opposition to the traditonal and regimented type of schooling which had prevailed for centuries." It appears that creating a nexus to Hitler and authoritarian Nazi Germany was an error on your part.

Fair enough Waffler, you may be quite right. But of course you're not suggesting that schools are teaching kids about personal responsibility and individual liberty are you? Because we both know they aren't. They're breeding "loyalists" who can't imagine life without government control. Hmmm, maybe the Hitler Youth comparison wasn't so far off...

Is this happening in Canada just as much as in America. My local VFW paid for and installed a display at our local high school that promotes the values you discuss. It bothered me however that we did not do it anonymously, we made sure that VFW got plenty of credit for this. I don't know that what you say is true at all Carlton. My son has made it and runs his own Real Estate Appraisal Business. My nephew is a PHD at OSU. If you watch College Jeopardy or visit your local schools you might get a different view of things. I am proud of young America but hopefully not to naive to know that sadly enough there are also to many unmotivated underachievers and gangs and drugs etc. So what is new?

If anything, this quote is an understatement.

Government control of education is expressly and explicitly created for control of the citizenry.

What else would you expect from a boarding school educated, tory imperialist who served as prime minister when children were still working in coal mines, cotton mills and sweeping chimneys.

Wafflers' knee jerk thumbs down, offended by a truth he embraces ?

I never can figure out why Waffler thinks corrupted schools that use miseducation for political purposes is a good thing. Our schools keep sliding down in test scores and all the increase in spending only makes it worse. Removing the political correctness and leftist propaganda from our schools is the end of education? How does one come up with that? By all means blame Fox for all our ills. After all if all disagreement were to be abolished we would then all have the "right mind" and all be happy. We could even change the meaning of liberty and freedom like the left does with many other words to create confusion. Eliminating the ability to discuss ideas, work out differences and, learn from each other is a major goal of the left. It is how the left succeeds in getting half of the population to vote against their own best interests.

You vill own noosing and you vill be happy...C Schwab
Its worse than we can guess...

Klaus Schwab...not C