“In its narrowest acceptation, order means obedience. A government is said to preserve order if it succeeds in getting itself obeyed.”

I'm not exactly sure how to rate this. The quote is 5 star accurate from a non - of, by, or for the people's governmental perspective. To a free sovereign, united with other sovereigns, sending personal servants off to represent them in an of, by and for the people government, order does not mean obedience but rather, order is a mere byproduct of obedience to natural law (corporeal man being incapable of creating law but, able only to discover law and pass coders, ordinances, regulations, rules, statutes, etc. that are in harmony therewith and most accurately describe such)..

Order is an aspect of nature. Compliance is an aspect of governmental obedience. Yes we need laws...but laws of "Justice" only.

The faimily of the slain Arizona farmer, Mr Krentz, who is presumed to have been killed by an illgeal Mexican crossing his ranch has said, "We do not blame the Mexican people who are simply seeking a better life, we blame the Mexican and American governments for not controlling our borders". Yes order is needed in our lives and we establish governments for the purpose. Americans are generally a very civil lot who do seek to obey the laws that they establish. The laws constanly need to be tweaked to accomodate social and cultural changes. Look at laws about smoking in public places, seat belts etcetera. Often initially there may be objections to new laws established by the majority of the people. But wisdom generally prevails in the long run except maybe in the case of Mike who never sees the wisdom of anything that comes from the majority of the citizens. America, its people and its government (the longest running Constitutional democracy in the world) are, in my opinion, admired every where for their support, loyalty, and steadfastness to law and order, and to the Constituion, our military has the best command and control structure. That alone attests to our belief system and to the rightness to our cause of government of, by and for the people.

Who commands the sun to rise and set? Who commands the arrangement of DNA strands? Who commands a tree to grow? Who commands the balance of Nature? The idea that Man is needed for 'order' is simply an excuse to command others. As a systems developer, I know all about 'order' -- we call them processes. The question is not whether there is order but HOW will it be ordered. If government were run like a computer, justice would be swift and fair. But a close examination of the 'kind' of order there is in this country reveals a perpetual theft of the life-blood of the people -- it is in fact a crime against humanity. Life is ordered -- when someone wants to tilt the order to his benefit, we have tyranny.

Archer, excellent ! ! !

Archer, I agree with Mike, excellent!