“A government that can at pleasure accuse, shoot, and hang men, as traitors, for the one general offence of refusing to surrender themselves and their property unreservedly to its arbitrary will, can practice any and all special and particular oppressions it pleases. The result -- and a natural one -- has been that we have had governments, State and national, devoted to nearly every grade and species of crime that governments have ever practised upon their victims; and these crimes have culminated in a war that has cost a million of lives; a war carried on, upon one side, for chattel slavery, and on the other for political slavery; upon neither for liberty, justice, or truth. And these crimes have been committed, and this war waged, by men, and the descendants of men, who, less than a hundred years ago, said that all men were equal, and could owe neither service to individuals, nor allegiance to governments, except with their own consent.”

With these words,.."a war carried on, upon one side, for chattel slavery, and on the other for political slavery;.." Spooner nails the reasons for the war between the states and the only thing I add is that both sides were ultimately fighting for economic slavery to the same banking interests that were funding both sides directly and indirectly. This claim is a fact of history that can be verified if one takes the time to delve into the subject of the financing of both sides. Spooner was an absolutely brilliant man.

The war was fought because The Constitution contained a fatal flaw. It gave the slave holding states the right to count male slaves as part of the population to be considered when determining the number of Representatives to House Chamber of the Congress. Yet and again I say yet these self same male slaves could not vote. Thus as the slave population increase by births and importation the power and strangle hold of the southern slave states over the Union increased. The framers were good men and they tried their best but the document was a compromise and a best guess at how to give the colonies a good government. They were not political gods as some idealists would like us to think. And certainly Lysander was not.

Good Lord Waff, you still think the civil war was about slavery? Spooner nails the true nature of power hungry government here. And it has evolved into the Leviathan we know today. Complete with secret police, financial tracking and surveillance...none of that says "free country" to me.

As per usual and predictable, Waff is wrong. Lincoln did not give a hoot about freeing any slaves. In fact, the Emancipation Proclamation freed only the slaves in states opposing Lincoln. The war was about centralizing power in Washington D.C. and allowing northern carpetbaggers to rape and plunder the South. Read "Lincoln Unmasked".

The Republican Party was an abolitionist party. The south knew and saw the handwriting on the wall. Anyone is a fool that does not know this stuff. First causes and immediate causes may be different but the underlying cause was slavery and differing opinions about it. The South knew they had to do something about their strange institution and they planned on it vaguely so to speak to end it some day some way but wanted to think about for another 100 years or so. It is a little like todays Republicans. They know health care needs to be reformed and they will someday someway, just give them a little time. They had 20 years under Pres leadership. As a key politico said the other day "Republicans never support anything".

jim k....absolutely on target.

Perfect!

Rarely do we hear such simple truths. This describes the government of the 'Union' perfectly. Anon and jim k are absolutely right. Yes, slavery is wrong, but slavery was practiced in some northern states as well. The war between the States was about power and submission. Either the 'union' is a voluntary association of free states or it is not -- for sure, now, it is not. The Constituion is mute and without a real constituency if we are bound to it against our consent, if we are robbed without recourse, if we are imprisoned or killed because we challenge its authority over us. After the Civil War, the tone of the Constitution changed from a rule book for the government to a rule book for the people. Later Spooner writes in The Constitution of no Authority, that as a contract between the governed and their governors, there is no lawful authority of the Constitution upon those who have not agreed to it. The fact remains, that it is the officers and administrators of the government that have signed in agreement to follow it -- and to violate that agreement is punishable by imprisonment or death. We the People, on the other hand are not responsible for taking care of our fellow citizens via this contract -- in fact the agreement of the Constitution is to protect the rights of the People and to provide a system of jurisprudence for keeping the power-hungry in check. Spooner nails it. His "No Treason" series is magnificent.

Archer is right about the power and submission thing. The south had the political power, the Supreme Court Decisions (Dred Scott) and Lincoln and the Repus were going to change that balance. The South said hell no and tried to walk away and keep their slavery but they did not get very far. Sponner is a simple a&& and it is natural that Archer kisses up to him.

I always try to shun those who fail to respect knowledge, information and facts.

Lol. Oh Oh, Waff is getting mad again proving the truth of the statement "the truth hurts."

As Eisenhower said "We are a nation of law not men". Authority comes from knowledge, information, facts. Any scholar or serious student looks to authoritative sources. You guys are mostly flip not thoughtful or authoritative. Your flippancy comes from your disdain for authority or authoritatve sources, facts, information. Give me earnest persons and opinions and let the flip ones just melt into oblivion. LOL I never get mad. (PS: The handle is Waffler not Waff)

"Waffler" Eisenhower was a war monger and authority comes from the end of a gun. btw...what color is the sky on your planet?

Sorry Waff, in return you can call me anything you want including those words I'm sure are descriptive that have entered your thoughts. I can't help it, it's only rarely I can take you seriously and the rest of the time you make me laugh.LOL.

As long as we are having fun Anon and J and I am. I still think some of you guys are flip and have disdain of authority as Archer stated above. But you will never catch up to Mike of Norwalk in this regard.

Waffler, lol, thanks for the compliment. Though it's not true, considering the source, I do find it high praise indeed. By the way Waffler, can you quote or cite that specific section of the Constitution that gave a right to slavery?

Waffler, if you're speaking of the statist theocracy that infests this land, I do not disdain nor recognize any authority it may claim. I do have a certain level of disdain for the despotic / tyrannical power that said statist theocracy uses to lord over a once free people. There is a huge difference between authority and power. Authority would indicate a representation in the U.S. of 'We People's lawful and inalienable rights. I do honor lawful authority and any agent thereof.

Waffler, your 'shunning' of "knowledge, information and facts" is what has earned your reputation as a poster boy for ignorance...

As long as we're having fun, shucks Mike, I guess I'll just have to work harder to catch up to you.

Waffler, the right to your own opinion is inherent to Libertarian thinking. So whether or not I agree with you, I must, by my own principles, grant you the right to be wrong. ;-)

(-: Anon, I dunno, you'ld be working on a Waffler scale which includes a mob somewhere. By your last posting, I think you've moved ahead. ;-)

J Carlton - a robust "HEHEHE" to you. I don't have political insight to add, just wanted to say that I read this quote four times in a row. Strong, strong words, which I cannot even imagine being spoken publicly today. I wish I had the spine.

Spooner nailed it: some men are more equal than others. The road to Hell is paved with good intentions and our constitution proves it.