“By a declaration of rights, I mean one which shall stipulate freedom of religion, freedom of the press, freedom of commerce against monopolies, trial by juries in all cases, no suspensions of the habeas corpus, no standing armies. These are fetters against doing evil which no honest government should decline.”

I'm not sure this helped me any

This is the absolute foundation of a person's lawful rights. The US Patriot Act is in complete contradiction. Why do you think Jefferson identified these rights so specifically? Ask any student of history.

Do away with the standing army? Is that what you want to do?

Yes, David, no standing army. The state militias are to be standing at the ready to defend the nation, not federal armies protecting 'American interests' in foreign lands. Standing armies include paramilitary domestic police forces and other hyper-extreme militant and mercenary forces on federal payrolls enforcing unconstitutional regulations upon law-abiding American citizens at home.

Standing is standing is standing, be it state or federal.

Standing may be standing BUT!!! one standing is under State control, incapable of adventuresome crusading outside the U.S.; and, the other standing is under tyrant control with ability to molest or murder anyone in the world. Juries have also been nullified when considering the one aspect: jurors no longer have the ability to judge the law.

As a side note: Don't forget when New Hampshire Constitutionally refused to lend its Militia to early federal adventures.

Great points E Archer and Mike in Norwalk. Imagine if we had a federal government full of Jeffersons.

C/C ... explain?

Who are the militia? The People. They are not on federal payrolls -- they are the citizens of the nation, living at home, with their weapons handy, and trained in their use both technically and constitutionally. They are NOT standing armies.

Disband the standing (federal) armed forces, and see how fast you get standing (state) armed forces. Welcome to the real world. Also, the idea that juries do not judge the law is ludicrous. They may be discouraged from doing so, but they do so.

Learn about jury nullification at www.fija.org. I am part of the "well regulated Militia" of the 2nd Amendment, a typical male between 17 and 65. The Constitution speaks for raising an army only to defend our country. Instead, politicians use our "standing army" to attack countries like Afghanistan and Iraq. UNCONSTITUTIONAL. It wastes billions of dollars and, more importantly, thousands of lives (not just our citizens)! We would do better to offer a $100 million reward to locate and kill a few specific terrorists such as Bin Laden. Take out a few leaders and pull away from Middle East politics, and we will improve the security of our country for a fraction of the cost.

Tell me, since I am apparently so misinformed, what would happen one day or one week after the United States disbanded its standing armed forces? Then tell me what you would do to prevent that. I can't help but get the impression that you all would not have any idea of what to do one week after disbanding the standing armed forces.

The usurpation of the United States government by the Federal Reserve via the bankruptcy of the US in 1934 resulted in the loss of common law courts and the introduction of 'statutory' courts (over seeing the bankruptcy permanently) with criminal punishments previously reserved only for common law jurisdictions. From then on, the surrender of State sovereignty to the federal government's creditors began and continued. The results after all these years has been the loss of one right (and responsibility) after another including the disbanding of the state militias and the confiscation of weapons of the people. Before the standing army can be disbanded (only in a state of emergency is the federal government allowed to keep a standing army beyond the constitutional limit of 2 years), State sovereignty must be restored along with the rights and responsibility of the militia. Secondly, we can remove our military presence significantly around the world and start re-focusing on the very necessary reforms for restoring a Constitutional democratic-republic. We the People must take back our country by exercising our rights and the responsibilities that come with them. As long as we expect something for nothing, we will get more nanny-state government remarkably similar to the British Crown's claim to all its citizens as 'subjects' or worse similar to the early days of Nazism in Germany. Get our troops home safely now! As the world's superpower, we are grossly abusing our collective power, and as we sow, so shall we reap.

Ok, fine, disband and collapse. No problem. I mean, our inevitable collapse has to come about as the result of one or more failures, so why not disband the standing army. Go ahead. You know me, I am just waiting for God's kingdom to come, despite my occasional ranting about one thing or another. I'll tell you the truth, we always looked better on paper than in person ("we" meaning the nation). Some think we exist largely as a temporal protector of Israel, until circumstances unfold for the end-time scenario. I really don't know. But don't forget that the United States of America imports most of the raw materials it uses, for which reason it has maintained a strong naval fleet, to control the sea lanes. Give up your standing military forces, and you had better learn quickly to do without a lot of things. Fine by me.

I do not believe in your religion, David. You guys hate yourselves so much (and the rest of us even more) and can hardly wait to be dead. Death and Armageddon cults eventually self-destruct since the end of the world is not in fact coming -- look at the self-fulfilling prophecies of the Davidians (hmm, are you one of them, David?) What is in the works, though, is the subjugation of the world from which there will be little chance of escape. Live free or die.

Archer: You have no idea about my religion. You will live, however you live, and you will die, despite whether you had been free or not. What is in the works is the coming of God's kingdom to free the world of corruption and abomination, like the kind in which ignorant people pretend to know about what they have no idea, but joyfully slander others for pleasure.

It is not slander to state my opinion of your religion, David. I believe I read somewhere that 'the kingdom of God is within you.' My take on that is that the only way 'thy kingdom come and thy will be done' is through individual acts of goodness -- which is our responsibility and has been discussed thoroughly on this site as the 'moral' support required for a free nation. Jesus needed no gun, no loans, no government subsidies. Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, I believe. You cannot have two masters (government and God) I suppose turning the other cheek is out of the question as well... have some faith, David. ;-)

It is slander to state "You guys hate yourselves so much (and the rest of us even more)" since it is false, and to insinuate that I belong to a cult like the Branch Davidians is slanderous. We can play this game all night if you really want to. You misconstrue the Scriptures when you say that you cannot serve God and government. Actually the Scriptures indicate that we must serve both, putting preference on God's commands when they contrdict governments. I could refer you to some specific verses to illustrate the point, but that might be like throwing pearls to the swine. ;-)

My comments about your religious beliefs (based on your own testimony, David) is no more slanderous than your assertion that those that do not believe your dogma are damned and going to hell. It is not slanderous to point out the hypocrisies of fundamentalist views nor to interpret scripture according to one's own heart. Your view, apparently, is THE view and therefore anything contrary to it is 'slander' because it is 'not true.' When it comes to 'life after death' it is all hearsay (if even that) so therefore there can be no slander. You may as well call it 'sedition' (in keeping with the quote above) and try to put me away because I am swine. Yes, sounds like the Pharisees to me -- and the Bush's today. And as far as 'scripture' goes, the Bible has been used by tyrants and emperors for eons to justify their evils -- as do many Christians today. Believing they have a 'get out of hell free card' (as if God's grace were not his to give), they feel free to preach and condemn those who do not agree and say things like 'I will pray for your soul' meaning, 'you are going to hell.' Such arrogance and self-righteousness is hardly the way of Jesus. To wish for the end of the world because we are all damned and man is vile, depraved and a hopeless sinner is self-loathing to the nth degree -- and anyone who doesn't agree is a devil. That is absolute hatred, based on the terror of eternal damnation . Science then is 'evil', the unbelievers are 'evil' and on and on -- even the Christians hate each other -- the Baptist hate the Catholics, the Catholics hate the Protestants, etc., etc. These are generalizations of course, but pick a conflict in the world and the majority of them will be religious in nature. Give me the Sermon on the Mount any day. If your words, David, even remotely resembled those teachings of Christ and carried within them the inspiration of goodness (instead of condemnation), I would be your biggest supporter. But as your professed belief resembles more Pauline dogma and the Apocalyptic dreams of John, I must object. Jesus asks more of us than to simply hope and pray for the end of times -- certainly a perversion of the reforms he embraced and taught. From my own earnest study and introspection, doing good and being true and loving are the core principles of Heaven -- and if we would like a little Heaven here on Earth ('thy kingdom come') then we best get on with doing good for goodness sake. I will trust God to deal with the rest. A little humility and tolerance goes a long way.

Your prevarication and sophism are at a peak, Archer. Slander has a specific meaning, which you ignore at will, applying circumstances foreign to the significance of the term. Try and stay rational. You arrogantly assume from a few posts that you have analyzed my belief system, which is a transparently ignorant view. You need to respect yourself a little more and stop showing pride in ignorance. It is ugly.

An interesting and lively discussion of unconstitutional "standing armies" and "Federal Reserve" banks devolved into...this: "...Some think we exist largely as a temporal protector of Israel, until circumstances unfold for the end-time scenario. I really don't know. ..." But I am afraid that David DOES know, and what he knows is that the United States is to be the cat's-paw for his New World Order and that is simply wrong. The founders had it right. No standing armies. Of course no Federal Reserve System. Etc. If someone would have suggested a North American Union to any one of the founders, there would have been trouble. On the spot. It's that time again.