“It's OK to lie. It's OK to steal. It's OK to have premarital sex. It's OK to cheat or to kill if these things are part of your value system, and you clarified these values for yourself. The important thing is not what values you choose, but that you have chosen them for yourself and without coercion of parents, spouse, priest, friends, ministers or social pressure of any kind.”

What humanist curriculum is that? No humanist belives these things, but a christian would want you to believe that they do. This quote seems to be a compleat fabrication.

Would it be fair for me to make up absurd, insulting quotations and attribute them to "Christians?" That's exactly what you've done here with Humanists. I've been a humanist for over a decade, I'm president of a state Humanist organization, I've attended the past five American Humanis Association conferences. What you print here bears no relationship to Humanism. You're creating a straw man to oppose, but lying in order to do it. A real Christian wouldn't do that.

What nonsense.

I agree with Jerry and Mr. Anonymous here. That quote is plain nonsense, but since I am a Christian, I have to say/ask this: Christians are not necessarily one mind, one body. Yes, we do have beliefs that unite us, whether one is in communion with a church or not, but we don't always poke fun at humanists! And, as a Catholic, I have never heard a priest say that in a homily, in another public meeting, or in private.

So, as a concluding thought, why are you categorizing us Christians in this way, Chris?

What are morals but made up criteria for "acceptable" interaction. Think, who defined what was acceptable? What gave them the right to decide your mind for you?

I looked for this book, "WEEP FOR OUR CHILDREN" online and couldn't find it, of course. But I did find that this 'quote' had already been quoted on another site name wordunplugged.com as an example of why school crime is 'skyrocketing' under humanist influence. So... does this fall under free speech, or fraud?

I agree that it's important to choose values for yourself, but morality is not determined solely by cultural convention... in other words, some beliefs are better to hold than other beliefs.

You're a rockhead if you believe this crap. The selffishness described in this passage is at the root of every destructive act against humanity. This is a paganstic viewpoint that has NOTHING to do with true humanism. SelfLESSness is not just a value system of the moral majority but a necessity for the evolution of man. I trust that natural selection will weed out anyone who finds murder an acceptable value as clarified by the inept "self." Please...

1. I'd also like something more specific by way of a reference. Presented like this it is too vague to be of value, and too challenging to ignore. 2. As a (former) teacher and a researcher of atheistic thinking, I have to say that humanism suffers from conflict and inconsistencies in this area. You can't be a consistent evolutionist/atheist who believes we are animals, and ignore the bloody basis of your ethics and morality. 3. Here's a quote from Dr. Theodosius Dobzhansky: "Natural selection can favor egotism, hedonism, cowardice, ..... cheating and exploitation. Ethics are human ethics. They are products of cultural evolution." ("Ethics and Values in Biological and Cultural Evolution", Zygon, the Journal of Religion and Science, 1974). 4. Similar from Prof. W.H. Murdy: "Unbridled self-indulgence on the part of one generation without regard to future ones is the modus operandi of biological evolution and may be regarded as rational behaviour." ("Anthropocentrism-A Modern Version", Science, Vol II, 187, March 28 1975, p1172). 5. The quote being discussed is consistent with values clarification methods used in schools. It is clearly inconsistent with high standards of virtue and character, or social order. It is, though, manifestly consistent with the way many modern people live.

This is a vile perverted statement, and the diseased mind that put it on the internet surely needs our compassion, meted with a swift kick in the ass.

What tripe.