The Scandinavian countries are starting to crumble under the weight of multi-culturalism.  The truth is, those 'socialist' countries that are touted as the best examples of socialism can attribute their success to their adherence to western values and social mores.  The people in these countries regulate themselves according to Judeo-Christian values and traditions.  Their long-established cultures become diluted with foreigners who do not adopt the culture of their new countries.  As well, the youth who have no spiritual education have very different motivations and expectations — their identities are being written for them. 

People dependent upon government subsidy demand more and better service, to be treated as a right to the neighbor's 'capital.'  Sweden, Norway, Finland are struggling with massive influx of people who have no desire to assimilate — no, they are adamant about spreading their culture.   Socialism doesn't really work if everyone needs it — it works for a while when most people are productive independently, but as those workers switch from contributing to consuming, the economics cannot hold, followed by massive inflation, and economic crash.  

The human spirit is not empowered by socialism, except to liberate oneself from it, which is the only thing that has ever freed humankind.

Wow, looks like this quote has become popular with Muslims.  As a 'proverb' it certainly rings true for me, as I find it equally applicable to any zealot's religious dogma.  Christianity and Judaism also view the current incarnation as temporal.  Maybe it isn't a prison but I have heard a preacher refer to life as 'reform school.'  We are free, but not free from the consequences — those that live with that consciousness are then indeed 'bound' to temper their lusts for blood and power.  

The quote is deep, philosophical and worthy of consideration.

Any attempt BY THE GOVERNMENT to extend one's views on religion is a violation of freedom.  Freedom of religion includes the freedom of speech to express it.  And we are free to respond in kind.

LOL!  Robert, you are one of the most purposeful people I know. ;-)  How many causes are you fighting for?  Do you not take a stand regularly?  You have a big heart.  You act like you don't know who you are or why you do what you do.  You may fool yourself, but you can't fool me!

The confusion is due to the premise of the word 'capitalism.'  Marx and Engels use 'capitalism' to represent the antithesis of Marxism.  So capitalism is the 'enemy.'  What has happened as a result is the corruption of the concept of 'commerce.'  It is Commerce that America promotes, not capitalism.  There has never been 'capitalism' and we don't have it now.  Capital has been rendered useless with a debt-bearing fiat paper currency (one of the Communist planks) — your money is not backed by capital but by IOU's.  Commerce is the life blood of a nation.  The intent of Marxism is to centralize all commerce with the government — they become the agent for supplying all, as if you could only buy and sell through Amazon, only without the wide selection.  Every country to embrace full on Marxism has crashed because they killed commerce.  Let's use the word commerce instead of capitalism.  Capitalism isn't a thing, but commerce is everything! ;-)

The struggle for Liberty is continuous!  The rise of the police state is a natural function of authoritarianism.

That's my prayer, too...

"Without propaganda and deliberate and false reporting, the government cannot rule the people."

Absolutely!  My family moved several times while I was growing up, each time to a new state and culture.  Later I traveled coast-to-coast and around the world.  I am humbled by the common people in the '3rd world' and admire the achievements of 'civilization.'  The people of the world are awakening, stretching beyond the bounds of governments that rule them.  Independence, liberty, mutual respect, responsibility ... it is the solution they have all been waiting for.  Only, waiting is not the solution, but to act, to reclaim one's rights, and to abstain from plundering each other for survival.  Socialism is a dismal con — I don't say failure because it is a racket that pays dearly.  But sooner or later, there is not enough to plunder to pay for citizens' loyalty — so to war they go!  

"An able, disinterested, public-spirited press, with trained intelligence to know the right and courage to do it"

Where the hell did they go?! Sheesh...

I agree, "to the furthest point of our tolerance" but there is a limit, and it must be made known or else the usurpation never ends ...

Mencken had no idea that one day the very medium we write notes upon would be spying back at us.  Apparently there is no right to be private or anonymous.

Edward L. Bernays, the most influential person you have never known — and there is a reason for that.  The power of 'public relations' has usurped the minds of billions world wide!  There was a time when 'propaganda' and 'public relations' were known to be one and the same.  But thanks to a good 'public relations' campaign, the word 'propaganda' is never used but is the most perfected as it has ever been, so much so that people demand to be deceived, demand others join in the delusion or face social 'justice.'  Why anyone would incur a house-sized debt to attend college in this day and age is beyond my comprehension.  Nothing but Pavlovian dogs, all.

If the election of Trump has proven anything, the president doesn't/can't rule.  He is an executive administrator and commander in chief of the military.  Trump cannot even get his own bureaus to act.  This whole idea that electing a president can solve the nation's problems stems from the fallacy that he is the commander and chief of the government — he isn't.  Congress writes all the laws, spends all the money.  They are supposed to represent the people, but in reality they represent a 'party' with an agenda for furthering their power to eventually 'rule' and dictate to the people their obligations.  The president is a gatekeeper — he is to protect the rights of Americans from the wiles of power-hungry politicians who write rules that funnel money into their pockets.  

Joe, the bulk of taxes does not go to people who do not work, it goes to government contractors in the billions of dollars.  All those Congress critters are negotiating deals with their corporate sponsors for millions in special deals.  Politicians who have never done anything else are millionaires — how?  How is Pelosi worth $100 million?  I am sorry, but every single establishment politician is profiteering off government spending.  All they do now is divide the spoils, that's the only reason for electing them.  Compassion has NOTHING to do with it, and the poor communities get worse and worse — have they ever been improved?  No, politicians are excuse-machines, blamers, and con men.  The lazy are WE who keep allowing these greedy politicos to usurp the powers of the People themselves.

You got that right!!

So the workers should plunder the investors, the owners, the job makers, the customers, even demand ownership of what is not theirs?  You are not against the plundering, you just want your 'fair share.'

You are right on, Mike. Socialism is the religion of atheism.

Sheesh, what pablum...

Sorry, Reston, you are talking about religion not government.  The state is a creation of the People — why was it chartered?  Read the Declaration of Independence and the Constitutions, federal and state.  You lie when you say the state lives to serve the common needs for the benefit of all — that is not in the Charter.  Also, 'who' is the state that 'lives to serve'?  They live to RULE.  Your communist propaganda is not supported by the Common Law, to which we the people are bound.  We are not born with obligations to the state for the common good — that is servitude in whatever flavor is most palatable to you.

My apologies for the ranting — I've obviously let myself be 'triggered.'  I do think Robert is a Christian at heart, and is but trying to bring its principles to secular government.  This is not new, and begs the question why the separation of church and state anyway?  Because merging the two is incompatible with liberty and fosters oligarchy.

"To really get down to advancing discourse one must speak openly and in words that do not confuse the issue at hand."

I think Mike just did, Robert.  Do you 'grok' any of this? 

"We must have organisations that help those less fortunate and these organisation should be funded by government" — OK, that is YOUR idea, do the rest of us have anything to say about it?  How will the government pay the organizations (i.e. corporations)?  Is there any limit to how much the government may take from the people in order to pay the corporations to help us?  This is not the rich paying for the health care of the poor, this is everyone paying for the organizations to provide for us, and doing a crappy job at that.

Yes, you are talking about Christian Principles — an atheist wishing his government to follow Christian Principles — why?  The principles are good, but the thing is the responsibility is YOURS and MINE not a corporation of unaccountable profiteers in the victim and grievance industries.

You are right , Robert, in that a nation cannot let the poor and sick fall through the cracks, but it can never be legislated unfortunately.  If WE as a people, individually in our own capacity, offer that charity, give of ourselves, do good, as we sow so shall we reap.  That is how it works.  That is what you do, I know, and your contribution makes a difference.  Performing Christian acts for their own sake, not for anything in return.  Good for you!  You are a good man.

If you really want what you say, Robert, a republican form of government and a sovereign, responsible populace that does not employ theft to pay for the 'common good' is the best strategy.  True Liberalism puts the future of humanity in the hands of the people themselves, not centralized, pyramidal, Pharaoh's rule that all forms of Statism must have.  Socialism never works, thus requires constant propaganda to twist the plain meaning of words.  Socialist countries with Christian foundations do better than the atheist versions, but eventually, as Christian principles wane, so do the economies of the nations — Norway, Sweden, Finland, even Canada, these countries are having trouble with their socialized everything as they run out of people who share the same values.  Socialist values are predatory!  They lay claim to others' labor, money, property, speech as a 'right' — that's what you mean, Robert when you say the government should pay these organizations, as their RIGHT.  You do understand that the merging of government and corporatism is the very definition of fascism, right?

I guess it is a glass half full issue then.  I believe Life is a gift and opportunity, even though I have half a cup, it's better than nothing, and I can fill that cup if I have a mind to.  While the so-called liberals see themselves as missing half a cup, and looking at other people's cups and comparing.  They believe they are entitled to the full cup I now have because I have worked to fill it.  As well, they assume that they know what to do with my cup's 'excess.'  Does that sound about right?  Is the person ever responsible for playing the game with the hand he has been dealt? Cheers.

The whole quote really puts it into context!

Rights ARE inherent, they cannot be granted or taken away, thus they cannot be expanded.  We ASSERT that we have the inherent right to defend ourselves against predators — we don't have a right to succeed, but we have the right to fight for survival.  SO we assert that we have the RIGHT to live and to defend our own lives and others.  We assert that we have the right to Liberty, to be self-determining, to be free of bondage and involuntary service to another.  The question is WHY have we declared our rights to be inherent — because throughout recorded history, humans have been enslaved by monarchs, emperors, popes, governors, magistrates, all manner of political officers, all claiming the power to command and the obligation to obey.  The people threw off their yokes and declared themselves independent from the commands of King and Pope and their armies.  The only caveat, renounce the patronage of Crowns and Priests, act in your own sovereign capacity with honor and mutual respect for your fellow sovereigns with no subjects.

A right does not require any effort from anyone else to fulfill — we have no right to aspirin, to books, to the fruits of another's labor.  Producers own their products — they may dispense them however they wish, but they have no obligation to provide to others any thing.  A florist sells flowers, and those that want them make an offer of exchange, if acceptable, the trade is made, each relinquishing their claim to their former property.  The florist does not have a right to the customer's money, nor does the customer have a right to the florist's flowers.  Neither acts out of compulsion, both are contributing to the other.  This is commerce, and the people have an inherent right to trade without permission from anyone else (see the right to Liberty).

Reston you've got it backwards and inside out.

So true, Mike.