Mike, your dissertation is impressive but fraught with contradictions with regard to reality. For example, America's current foreign policy is to bring Democracy to sovereign nations who are currently under tyrannical law. And, whose resources they can rape and pillage under this guise. Republican rule (a government exercised by the people) was in existence in ancient times, namely, Napal, Africa, and so on. All these great words of "natural law" are totally without credence in a world that doesn't even know what the bloody hell you are talking about, especially when you refer to nature's God.. What matters is what is understood by the people and how and what they understand affects their well being (their livelihood) - this after all is where the meat meets the bone. You live, I presume in America, and in America, Democracy reigns supreme (so they have us believe). So, the argument with regard to a Republican form of government can never be reached because of the nature of us humans - it becomes corrupt and hence Augustus Caesar. This could change but I doubt for a very long time as our current interpretation IS NOT a republic that is governed by the people but by an few wealthy elite individuals, hence the quote - it does not exist....

Gunny, that was really uncalled for - just stick to the quote... Unfortunately being honest to ourselves can be both positive and negative. So, I can only give this four stars.

"Absolute power corrupts absolutely" The greatest weapon of all is not the gun but compassion... The US has been totally desensitized towards killing through Hollywood and it's own imperial invasion of other sovereignty's. It's time to stop the abuse and name calling and start to love each other. Nothing will change unless we do - GUNS do not work and history has proven this time, and time again. Those then who retort with yes, but, "how will we defend ourselves" If you are at that stage in life then it's to late. The only way to go back to the natural life is to have compassion, then there will be no need to defend your country and your family. The Gun mentality will always end up with self destruction. OK call me a flaming Liberal, socialist, or whatever, but it will be us that will rescue you from yourselves and recover you from the killing fields....

Joe, grow-up.... and leave your ego at the door...

Seven stars: He was given the option to recant or just move into the country but his integrity was such so great he drank the hemlock. As Socrates didn't actually write anything down, his followers and Plato, in essence, became his voice and storyteller.... One of my heroes.....

noun
1.
a body of citizens enrolled for military service, and called out periodically for drill but serving full time only in emergencies.
2.
a body of citizen soldiers as distinguished from professional soldiers.
3.
all able-bodied males considered by law eligible for military service.
4.
a body of citizens organized in a paramilitary group and typically regarding themselves as defenders of individual rights against the presumed interference of the federal government.

How about keeping a lust for war off the throne - American's may still have a chance to enjoy the rest of their life!

Don't worry Warrdoc, you'll have company... just make sure you have some good wine...

Yes, we may well have past the tipping point... Bernie, if he keeps to his word, is America's only hope for recovery. If he does not keep to his word, or is assassinated, like most good men are, then America can kiss itself goodbye..

Good point Terry.. Warrdoc, it took two years for American to join WWll (I think that could be call indifference) and even then under great coercion.
And if Russia did't join the fray we would all be speaking German today...

The quote is good, simple, and to the point. Sorry, I cant join in - to much damage is being done! THINK before you write, think empathy before you write, and think reality before you write. THINK about the world you live in not one you wish to live in. Make your comments appropriate to today and leave your egos at the door... when you read the great writers they hardly mention any of the adjectives use above. I'm sorry, it's just gone to far for me to comment - Enough is enough!

You may find this essay on the subject interesting, - a bit long but worth reading; please forgive the grammar. I found it on the internet - though, I don't know who wrote it.
http://www.essayforum.com/writing-3/unexamined-life-worth-living-1804/

This is the true nature of man and it's not pretty:
https://www.facebook.com/the.addictedhome/videos/625049480932073/?pnref=story
Perhaps man didn't understand the law of nature....

Socrates deserves six stars or more- Socratic dialogue is much need in today's world and even more so if we are to survive. Liberty, in its physical sense, only comes from a self-examination and the thoughts and actions of the people. Liberty is NOT a mythical Law of nature. It's hard and as solid as it comes. We must not mess with this great quote. It is understandably the quote that will save mankind. "The examined life is unfit to be lived by man." Mike, as for Lippmann's quote, well, you tell that to the masses and they will think you are bonkers. Examine your life and you may find a virtuous path..... An unexamined life has NO knowledge of virtue, it goes along and repeats, repeats... He who does not remember the past, is condemned to repeat it! Santayana...

I agree!

I would substitute destruction for suffering - Mike, I promise to continue our chat...

It was only a preamble and has no legal authority... That being said, it's very good....

Hi Mike and Archer just returned from being in France. I did respond to you May 26th comments.

Archer, First, I apologize for my late reply. Even though I comment so infrequently, when I do, I enjoy our chats on Liberty Quotes. I love your second paragraph someone will have to act indeed! Under what authority does that person act?
Paragraph 5: Not just acceptance of homosexuality, but also equal benefits as married couples. I must emphasize that Gays do not want special treatment, we just want equal treatment; we want to visit our love ones in hospital, we want the same legal rights, we want all the rights that a marriage license entails. By the way, do you have a marriage license? From what you tell me, your life-style is totally independent of the legal system. Its really not a matter of Gays having a marriage license, its a matter of two individuals who love each other and are willing to commit themselves to each other and having this recognized by the state, and consequently giving them equal rights. Recognition is good for many reasons, all of which encompass, home and work life, spiritual, religion, and for many legal and economical ramifications. This is not including the general acceptance of homosexuality which is vital for young people because it really hurts teenagers (many of which commit suicide) and young people starting out in life. I think for heterosexual marriages, the legal ramifications are not as important as they are for Gays, because of the hostility and homophobia that still exists, especially in the south and mid-west. Taking individual beliefs aside, I honestly dont see the argument against homosexuals have the SAME rights as heterosexuals. What is wonderful is that a majority of those polled in America on the subject did not show any negativity and were in agreement for gays to have equal rights. The Supreme Court (for a change) just confirmed public opinion and followed it.
Para 7: What church is Mike referring too? church of Satin or the church of whatever? The state is simply substituted for VERY obvious reasons we cannot have all the different communities determining what is good and what is right even in communities you recognize and give authority to a group or individual to make decision on your behalf so pray, tell me the difference between that and having a larger entity, say a county, and then a state, and then the country as a whole. It all boils down to passing on authority and responsibility for your governance. Your religious faith or non-faith is not in the power of the government, which is an argument religion uses, though it has no validity.
What is infesting the land is bigotry and towards our fellow human beings especially those who are different statist theocracy is an oxymoron.
Para 8: didnt see the point you were making, please explain.
Para 9: I think you are incorrect re; co-habits, as employers and government have recognized civil partnerships for some time now in the UK it used to be proof of living together for more than 12 months, plus bank accounts and utility bills (which I found really stupid). Heterosexual couples can meet one day and get married the next and receive ALL the benefits of marriage. Para 10: this is BS as Churches are not force to marry gay couples: Not only that, why would Gay couple want to get married in a church that demeans them really, that argument doesnt wash it is just fear mongering.
Para 10: I believe the vast majority of religious people are consigned to and subservient to their church and ministry please tell me the difference. Special dispensation, like affirmative action Archer, you must be failing in your ability to continue this dialogue the very last thing Homosexuals are request is special dispensation even under the new law Gays will face must stricter confirmation of their marriage vows than heterosexuals. Bi-national couples face a barrage of bureaucracy when they wish to bring the gay husband back to America. So, please do not share this incorrect information about special interests. The Christian lobbyists have been infiltrating government for years and this should stop. America should also take away the tax free status as they are involved heavily in funding politics. Tell me what more they want other than equal rights please add what more Gays want other than equal rights before answering this questions I am very interest as I do not know of any Now affirmative action (making up for past grievances) is a total different ball game; it bears NO similarity to Gays having equal rights, whatsoever. In actual fact, heteros have had affirmative action for hundreds of years, if not thousands of years look it up in the dictionary. They have had a right to marriage which has given them an advantage over gay people for thousands of years!!
Para 11: I presume your community does not issue marriage licenses? Is that so???
Para12: what they want is a license dont you get it!!!
Para13: again, you make statements that are totally unsubstantiated, how has Gay marriage suppressed your freedom? And, as for your derogatory statement Im Gay and you better love it or else I will ruin you for heaven sake where did you get that from I would like to know? I find it very offensive. Gay wedding cakes in your face, really Archer, I thought higher of you than that. Liberals are not the fascists here, it is the faux libertarians who have become theocratic (Christain) fascists masquerading as libertarians, true libertarians would give a &$*@ about gay marriage, thats the last thing they would care about, in actual fact they would enjoy seeing them get their rights.
Para 14: Im afraid you need a history lesson with regard to those who have become tyrants after being oppressed you have temerity to add gays and blacks amongst Christians and Muslim tyrants of the past and today. That was a totally unnecessary comment, one that furthers division and hate.
Para 15: Gays are people not constructs, really. As this statement refers to God, which I do not recognize, it is not possible for me to discuss this anecdotal comment.
Para 16 and 17: I agree with wholeheartedly and I second the motion.
Lastly, I thank you for taking the time and fortitude to respond to my comment I think the issue here is that one is religious and the other is not. Perhaps in future discussion we should leave God out of the discussion and we will arrive at equality for all. Thank goodness gay people do not have to care anymore what other people think as equality is finally the law of the land!
Take care and be well, Robert

Mike, sorry for the late reply, had been away for a few days. Anyway, Ill do my best to answer some of your questions. First let me start with one of my own: What is perceived as natural law? Your argument, with regard to natural law, is highly limited to the order of the day, as it can change pending who is in control of the history books. As God is a myth (not proven in the eyes of billions), and the bible, just a collection of past mythical beliefs rewritten under the power of the latest tyrannical belief, and a conglomeration of de jure community ideology Its professed laws are a mute point. Natural law is the law of nature and not subject to human intervention it is what it is.
Lastly, a government of law, which you define as natural law, would create chaos throughout the realm unless that law had the power to enforce its laws; and, whom, but some form of governance would be responsible for law and order. Leaving to a community its own governance, that has no interference from the outside, would be a different matter but thats not reality. In an ideal world you are correct - however, we do not exist in an ideal world; plus, in my opinion it could never exist. Government of law and natural law is an oxymoron (as you alluded to above) God has nothing to do with natural law, it is what it is, as you quite rightly provide examples. Governance and enforcement means an interpretation of those laws AND, NO ONE IS PRIVATE AND FREE. Mike, your comments above seems to be predicated on our existence without order. On closing, I congratulate you on sticking to your guns.. P.s. I think the crux of this argument is that you believe in a higher power and I dont - we are all what we are! Americans, in the constitution, were provided freedom of religion and not any power to use their religion in the political affairs and governance of the America people.

Humans, governments, and corporations are so blind to the happiness and love thats in the Universe; instead they make war and fill our hearts with hate, anger, prejudice, and selfishness. Humans are so selfish and vain to believe they are truly happy, free, and contented. Face life as a flower, never grasping its beauty or clinging to its existence let the petals fall and know you were a part of its life.

Mike, by the way, I did give this quote five stars....

Mike, you are a good person but alas a slave to the system - free yourself and see the great freedom beyond the words and actions of those you follow - be yourself...Marriage IS NOT the dominion of religion; marriage has long be used as the uniting of consensual entities (basically a contract): Figurative use (non-theological) "intimate union, a joining as if by marriage" is from early 15c. Why is it that most religious people think they are the only people that have morals "family values" - these elements, including marriage, have been in existence long before the Abrahamic religions reared their separatist and sad history upon humanity. ANYTHING that effects the well being of the citizens of America is NOT outside the purview of the nations highest court. Nothing is off the cards when the well-being of all it's citizens are concerned. Christianity has proven totally irresponsible when it comes to the well being of ALL. Christianity is a singularly part of a community and as such has no right to determine ethical and moral dictates. Yes, indeed, read the quote again and you will realize I am the one agreeing with him - Liberty is for all, not just a section of the community, regardless whether it be religious or not. Furthermore, if it wasn't for the First Council of Nicaea and the death Arianism, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Unfortunately, it was politically prudent for Constantine to make it an imperial religion (Catholicism), cementing the faction that were rising against him. He created what is today Christianity (at the cost of thousands of lives, horrifically put to death). Mike, with regard to your comment - as always, well written, it misses the core argument of compassion and kindness towards all beings, and that liberty and freedom, belongs to all people, not just a selected few. The LAW is the LAW and it is the responsibility of the people to change the LAW if they believe it to be egregious and unlawful to ALL people, not just those who disagree with the current legal status of a nation. We cannot choose what the highest Court in the Land has determined to be law. Their biggest judicial tyranny was when they put Bush into Power - what they did then was unconstitutional, as the state of Florida highest court had already made a decision - constitutionally that should have been final. Yet, most on this auspicious blog didn't say a thing. And now, the US SC decision to allow marriage of consenting adults regardless of sexual orientation there is a sudden outcry. Sorry, but in my eyes, this doesn't wash.... I'm sorry, but many of this blog are not true Libertarians - they are libertarian theocratic. Like many who confuse the word Liberal.
Sorry for the long reply. Take care and be well, Robert

Well, at least yesterday, they did the right thing (at least five of them) - Kennedy, you are a hero....

I have said this many times but not so eloquently - if only the 100,000 would relieve themselves of their apathy and lethargy. Perhaps would could change the current 99 percent rule....
https://blog.logos.com/2013/03/empiricism-locke-berkeley-hume/