“The unexamined life, said Socrates, is unfit to be lived by man. This is the virtue of liberty, and the ground on which we may justify our belief in it, that it tolerates error in order to serve truth.”

Liberty is virtuous unto itself and is experienced by living Natural Law - examined or unexamined.

We learn and advance by making mistakes. If law and the right way of doing things is Natural then what is there to really learn, we are all just automatons. There are 6 billion ways of doing things in the world today, let each examine, explore, experience, make errors and find the way that suits him best given his ability to do so. This is liberty. Living the unexamined life is living like a brute aniamal I believe is what Socrates is saying.

The thought is not complete. Liberty does indeed tolerate error in order to serve truth, but Liberty never serves error to have truth. Liberty requires error be exposed and rejected that what is true may then be duly served and honored as right.

Waffler, you never fail to make me smile. Your misuse of 'natural' does tend to make one go 'hmmm, how did he miss that so completely?' Natural Law is a simple title to that codex of laws which exist (fiscal, nobility of life, theft, physics, gravity, etc.) naturally. It is for man to discover those laws (by trial, error, reason, review of history, etc.) and apply them through day to day personal activities and events - codes, rules, statutes, etc. The closer man's codes, rules, statutes, etc. are to natural law, the greater the freedom and liberty. The quote deals with this aspect; man must be vigilant in his examination to discover and apply such laws, truth, and liberty. I personally believe there is sufficient good in all men (as a general rule) that their unexamined acts will naturally gravitate to the virtue of liberty - unless otherwise distorted by degenerative philosophies, greed, pride, selfishness, etc.

I always thought Mike that your use of "Natural Law" signified that one size fits all. I have read that many who study human nature and personality find that seldom does one size or one style fit all, that thinking about human beings as being machines is a cause of OCPD illness. Of the laws you listed I would agree that physics and gravity are natural immutable laws but they others are well not so immutable. I am truly glad you smiled today Mike, I try.

Nature's forces have the same influence upon us whether we examine them or not. Just how it is that we act according to nature’s influence is anything but standard. I can reject the stipulation that gravity has any force on me – this doesn’t change gravity’s influence, but may change my patterns of behavior as an ignoramus. How do we live in a state of nature? As the only perceived creatures on the earth having the excelled ability of reason and logic, we have the unique ability of living our own realities. Liberty is as standard in nature as is the air we breathe; however, how we act in relation to this will vary. Can Congress, by virtue of being the established legitimate legislating body enact and pass a law against children breathing? Sure they can. Congress can legislate all day long; however, children will still continue to breathe. What government CAN do, however, is to forcefully send out an enforcer to physically suffocate children to death. This is the difference between a government who understands the philosophy behind structuring a political system based on natural laws, and a government who believes that what is "natural" is only that which can be enforced. As if force is itself a standard of legitimacy. Lippmann's view of Socrates' words is open for debate; Socrates may be also interpreted to mean that man, as the only perceived creature existent with heightened abilities of logic, reason, and rhetoric, should make use of those faculties wherein he has been given.

I get the gist of it, but to continue with known error instead of truth is to doom oneself.

Socrates deserves six stars or more- Socratic dialogue is much need in today's world and even more so if we are to survive. Liberty, in its physical sense, only comes from a self-examination and the thoughts and actions of the people. Liberty is NOT a mythical Law of nature. It's hard and as solid as it comes. We must not mess with this great quote. It is understandably the quote that will save mankind. "The examined life is unfit to be lived by man." Mike, as for Lippmann's quote, well, you tell that to the masses and they will think you are bonkers. Examine your life and you may find a virtuous path..... An unexamined life has NO knowledge of virtue, it goes along and repeats, repeats... He who does not remember the past, is condemned to repeat it! Santayana...

This is the true nature of man and it's not pretty:
https://www.facebook.com/the.addictedhome/videos/625049480932073/?pnref=story
Perhaps man didn't understand the law of nature....

You may find this essay on the subject interesting, - a bit long but worth reading; please forgive the grammar. I found it on the internet - though, I don't know who wrote it.
http://www.essayforum.com/writing-3/unexamined-life-worth-living-1804/

" With a firm reliance on Divine Providence " Declaration of Independence. One can believe in God, and, that God is faithful and can be trusted. To attribute to God his existence and his powers of natural law, and their influence upon the natal agent. Mind, body and soul, the soul, the seat of emotion, the feminine soul of man. A tri human being. Vanity is that which the creature is made subject to, that man might be subjected to Hope. We are saved by Hope. Liberty is fleeting, and can be lost. Correction Of instruction is the way of life. As stated in the sacred ancient text, regardless of the language written in. Examine yourself whether you be in the faith, is the request made for all at Liberty. Moral natural law is prior to experience, experience tempers the being in its ability to discern good from evil. Seasoned with salt is the term used. A neutral naturalistic viewpoint stated above views life without God in it. Happiness is a state of contentment. Justifying ones own behavior through examination of ones self. Approval comes from God. Conscience, bears witness to truth and honesty as also convicts one whether right or wrong behavior. Social engineering invades where not needed. When wishing to control what is acceptable behavior or not within a society by removing what is a wholesome life. Life without moral restraint is like passion without compassion is no more than lust and the fulfilling of the carnal censes. Ones does not need a court to dictate right and wrong behavior. Or that which is moral responsibility. The tactics of overthrow of a moral society. Thrusting upon it a methodical well thought out tearing down of that which good is a wholesome society. The ways of a man are of the Lord, so who can know his own way. When a man pleases the Lord, he makes his enemies to be at peace with him. The ability of a person to compute separates us from other beast, Let him that has wisdom number. The heavens do rule, is the lesson taught. And they are those that declare God's glory. Which is knowledge of God and their ability to influence man. Just like gravity cannot be seen or heat from the sun, they are no doubt just as real. God is a spirit and they that worship him must worship in spirit and in truth. For he seeks such to worship him. One leads by foreknowledge of experience past. Experience is our guide. In what ever state therein be content. don't worry, trust God. Do that which is right and you will have praise of the same. To the merciful God shows himself merciful. Liberty for all is our creed. Protect the least in their rights will govern the most best.

Ronw13 , gibberish.

Please Ron give us a break. This stream of consciousness writing with little to no continuity or even connection to the topic at hand is just a jargon dump. We get it -- glory Hallelujah. Cross the river already, and leave the canoe behind. ;-)

Not sure what connection Lippman is making with the Socrates quote. The 2nd sentence has a meaning of its own. Both thought-provoking ideas but kind of disjointed in this context.

To argue upon dry law logic Archer is just that. When I make a point in harmony, It is a Right on. But when I speak of spiritual things within this blog I always get from Jim gibberish, from you give me a break, well sorry, if I offend your mind. To those that know the word of God well, they say nothing, or sit and watch. Please give me a break from your lack of understanding. Please. It seems for those that do get it, it is others that are not steeped in self worth based on ones private interpretation of life, Assumption is a great error of stupidity ! You mi9ght not make the connection but assuredly others do. Look around other than the world you assume to live in. The quote is common sense !! you might not be a man of faith, but for sure others are ! Us or just you. Intellect is not the highest order of understanding ! What in the world would people do if God appeared and said hello !! Sorry if I offend some free speech is just that. To examine yourself is to come to find God in your life as our Founding Fathers no Doubt !

Ron, it's not that I do not have faith, I just don't believe what you believe -- heck, I can't even understand half of what you are saying. I suppose you see yourself as some sort of holy guide and protector -- from the outside the impression is of one of those homeless men on the street shouting "THE END IS NEAR! REPENT!" Just to be clear -- a nut. But, I am OK with nuts -- some of the great thinkers of our time were considered nuts. The frustrating part is that while I do endeavor to understand your point of view, your words are unfocused, disjointed -- I always feel I am being spoken at rather than talking with -- there is no dialogue, just the same old tired ramblings. Do you really think you are opening anyone's eyes or heart? Try connecting before judging.

I know you have faith Archer, I've always enjoyed your sharp mental capacity and depth of understanding. I did not mean to talk at you. It is many years later now and perhaps my writing skills have become better. I'm a wild card put in the deck to communicate abstract thought. God Bless and Semper FI