Regan lived this statement in his own life every day. As far as great minds leaving government and going into business do we need a better example than Dick Cheney and Haliburton. Government compared to the economy as a whole employs a larger percentage of college trained people. After all government does not operate KFC and McDonalds etcetera.

Raise our taxes, pay our debts, then cut taxes. Man up y'all, quit being such cheap skates!

I toured Jamestown settelment today. Their 1606 Charter exhorted them to be "of like mind" and to unite for the good of their colony and furture country. The idea that people came to these shores to be "individuals" and not to ban together and unite is a strange brew of concepts. I know not where some of the above get these ideas. As far as the Constitution being "timeless" some miss the fact that it can be amended any time the populace wishes, so that it is timeless but also as modern as today.

That was in 1833 in 1850 during the debate over The Missouri Compromise he said this, "Mr. President I wish to speak today not as a Massachusetts man, nor as a northern man, but as an American. I speak today for the preservation of the Union. There can be no such thing as a peaceable secession."

Secessh is a nickname if you will for people who believed in secession from the Union. The two folk who advanced that theory of law mostly lived in Massachusetts and South Carolina, initially. It is granted to the likes of Mike and Archer that we live in a world of convention and law. The concepts embodies even int the Declaration "all men are created equal" that are claimed to be from God, still require that the individual accept the premise. It is a ploy to say that your concept is from God and therefore must be accepted. For milleniums and even presently there are many who do not accept that premise and think that they are for equal than others. I think the concept it a good one and in the long term works best for mankind. Agreed that we are biological forms individual and theoretically capable of living without any contact, connection or need for other biological forms, except maybe for food. But man is more than that. He is a spiritual and social creature. The social party makes him also a political creature. Political meaning a need to form policy with his social groupings, This policy making mandate of social interaction creates and requires conventions, concepts and organization. Archer is correct about the need for the use of force. Look around and you will see force every where. If we remove it and have the world Mike envisions we would have utter, complete and non-ending chaos. Archer has it wrong, DC is the people of the states. We might be better off if we did away with all state boundaries and governments and lived as one, Then do away with national boundaries and lived as one planet. We could become the United Planet of Earth. How about that concept?

and yet the public is fooled every day by politicians who promise benefits and earmarks and wars but fail or refuse to make us pay for them. Taxes need to be raised, that is the reality that we fail to see daily..

If governments and corporations can organize and throw their combined weight around why should not workers and employees. Government and corporations do not deal as individuals. What the heck do you think "corporate" and "incorporated" means? It does not mean sole (Individual} proprietorship.

The federal government, that is the legislature drawn from citizens from the states, created the Union or Federal government. It then went on to create a greater and greater Union by the purchase and settlement of vast tracts of land. The States United created the United States. Make no mistake the United States has certain rights and privileges that have been vested in it by the residents of the states. As for Webster he was from that secessh state of Massachuettes. That issue was discussed and talked about ad nauseum up until the Civel War, its over folks.

GunnyCee you are correct about the right to sit down and negotiate. The State of Wisconsin took that away. Are we as "stockholders of government" citizens that is going to treat government employees as slaves. Just as stockholders of companies form a powerful organization that left unchecked can run rough shod over the individual, employees should have the right to form "powerful" organizations. Yes GunnyCee companies have the right to flee these shores for greater profits. The only way to stop their nonsense is to improve the rights, conditions and income of people everywhere. As you have said Gunny capitalists are only interested in self as well as are stockholders. The worker has a right to be interested in themselves also. Agreed!

I feel a twinge of an affront of freedom being taken by the Wisconsin Legislature. It reminds me of the famous quote, "First they came for the communists and I said nothing, then they came for the unionists and I said nothing, then and then and then" Is it time that all good men stood up and said no to dictatorship.

Also getting older helps.

All great quotes today. They should all be taken with the knowledge that they do not just apply to the ME or I but to the WE and the US. It has been said that the entire population of the world could live in Texas and each person could live on 1 acre of land. There would be no room however for roads, common areas etcetera. Just an absurd example of where we would be without public places, common ownership etcetera.

It has been said that people get the government they deserve. We the American people are at war, we proactively or willing allow the securtiy at airports, bordders etc. We do this via our government and the leaders and laws that we put into place. We should fess up and pay for this stuff. People want good education for their children but don't want taxes to pay for. From whence came this childish populace he wants all this stuff via deficit spending. Gunny Cee if you got around more or experienced foreign students as I have you would have heard a different refrain. Around the world Americans are considered to be a religious people. Where do you get these contray ideas you that you state?

Wrong GunnyCee. A capitalism that does not serve customers fails. That is what Adam Smith said. There will be no profits if the endeavour does not fill needs, either real ones or perceived ones. Capitalism is an economic tool to satisfy the needs of people to get products/things and to make profit doing so. Like all tools it is not in and of itself sacred. The results are what is important not the tool itself. I repeat the idiocy of Ayn in this quote, people, villages, counties, states, nations have for milleniums decided what needs to be done in certain areas, like parks, roads, water works, care for certain classes of people etc. For her to totally ignore such a history of the human race in order to promote her BS is the height of intellectual ignorance.

and I thought the leftists or communists were like Mike and Carlton who just like the classic communists wish for the withering away of government.

This really proves what a stupid woman she was. Who does she thinks decides where the roads, rails, airports, canals, bridges, go. The society, people do this through their governments worldwide. Capitalism specifically and economics generally is about helping people, that is distributing goods and services to those who need or simply just want them. Obviously some combination of group (ie government) and individual (capitalism) effort is needed to accomplish this worldwide. Oh! what a shallow, sloganeering, flippant woman she was!

Debt makes the world go 'round. The isssue is do you manage your debt and does the government manage its' debt properly. The US debt has not been managed well when Presidents take us to war and cut our taxes. The bailouts were well managed with profits being returned to the treasury. We will never manage the deficit well as long as people say "no new taxes" and still demand wars, security, infrastructure etc.

There are popular revolutions going on around the world, some say they are aided and abetted by the free speech of the internet and social networking via personal computers. Why does not Liberty tree and its many contributors see a ground swell here like we have see in Tunisia, Egypt, and now Libya, with many saying other countries are to follow suit. The answer is simple, we have had an open and participative society and government for a long time now and contrary to the hatred for government and society oft expressed by the afore mentioned contributors - their extreme views are a very very minisucle minority and how it is that they have come by these views is simply any ones wild guess.

Mike I thought you claim to be a know it all concerning the Constitution, so why are you bugging me about it? I bet you guys like Carlton (oh he lives in Canada) obey rules and regualtions every day and then you call me a slave.

J I assumed I guess wrongly that most folks think that a government shut down hurts government or its employees. I thought that you would be surprized to know that at least in my case, in the spring of 1995, when National Parks, Social Security Offices, etc. were shut down for two weeks, I sat home, did no government work, and got full pay. It is rumored that the real reason for that shut down was that Gingrich got pissed at Clinton because the later made the former sit in the back of the plane. Why shut government down if it saves no money and hurts people?

How blind can one man be? He obviously had never heard of corporate pollution, abuse of land, hiring of illegal aliens etc. Private citiszens and corporations have done all they can to enrich self and destroy this land. Thank God for our government oversight, such as it is, a tough act when you have so many obstructionists. Unfortunately due to lack of man power government generally has to be benign rather than proactive. And the polluters, criminal corporations, fraudsters can only be brought up short after the fact. Penalties and sentences on these clowns should be made stiffer and stiffer.

The requirement that children be educated is a state or societal mandate or dictate, like it or not. That private individuals and institutions have opted to step into the breach after the fact is laudable even if substantially a Johhnny Come Lately approach. We should welcome them but never forget it is us the citizens of soceity and us who have formed the state that have made it all possible. I know of no Federal Law requiring that states or their subdivisins have education or schools. School financing is generally 60% local, 30% state and 10% Federal. Joining a union should be (if it is not already) a Constitutional Right, The Feds employes approx. 2 million, the states cities and towns approx 20 million.

Congress is US, We are the Congress. Ever heard of elections for Congress.

So what? Life is good in these United States for most people I know. The ones suffering most now are governments everywhere who are running deficits. So what gives. The corporations and fat cats are rolling in profit and cash. In Wisconsin now they want to further benefit corporations and stiff governmnet workers. Interesting fact I was out of work for two weeks in the last governemnt shut down. Guess how much wages I lost. Zero, nada. I sat at home watching the Gingrich idiots for two weeks, Went back to work and recieved full pay and benefits for the time off. I tell you these Repubs are idiots when it comes to managaging anything.

I give it a 1 because it is true. The quote fails to point out that "we" the cities, towns and villages of this land charge fees and regulate things because that is the way WE want our cities, towns and villages to be run. I live in an Historic District. I cannot paint my home or do stylistic changes to the exterior without persmission form the Preservation Society. I support the Preservationists and agree with the District in maintaing it. So I and my neighbors give up some freedom. If folk want to live in places that have rules and regulations then they should abide by those rules and regulations or GET OUT. Hell, we raise hell about illegals because they flount rules and regulations, but guys like Carlton are just as bad in there desire to do so!