They probably did have compulsory attedance laws especially in New England. Under Puritanism every thing was pretty much complusory.

Most of all that you guys and gals are saying was said about my schooling in the late '50's and look how great some of us turned out. Old folks criticizing the youth while bragging about their own experience as superior is nothing new. Carlton please read my blurb about Kindergarten in a comment to one of the other quotes. Basically history says that Kindergarten contrary to being a state propaganda machine was and is a methodology that creates in children a sense of initiative and self-directedness. Its' effects were so profound that it was outlawed by the Prussian government who preferred a traditional and regimented type of education..

Yes children should be educated, the question here seems always to be by whom should the children be educated. Many fear what they call state education and others may call community education. A correction should be made to a comment made here that seemed to cast Kindergarten in a bad light as a German statist, Nazi or social engineering gimmick. Contrary to that view the history of Kindergarten is that it was started in 1837 and based on a 1650's institution in Switzerland called the School of Infancy. Kindergarten was hailed as a method of early education that enabled children to develop initiative and self-directedness. So much so that the Prussian government outlawed it in 1851 because it was feared to be creating revolutionaries or free thinking people. The Prussians it seems prefered the traditional regimented approach.

I fell certain that Adams did not mean Indians when he made this comment. Indians in those days were Indians or Red Men etcetera. What he meant by native American is a white man born in the colonies. From what I read he was substantially correct. Literacy was higher among colonists than among those in the mother country.

J Carlton your aspersions on Kindergarten should not go unresponded to. Here is what one encyclopedia says: ""First one was opened in 1837 (AT LEAST 90 YEARS BEFORE HITLER) and patterend after the School of Infancy established in 1650 Switzerland." Contrary to being a government school "the Prussian government, fearing that the kindergarten was fostering revolutionary ideas, because of its emphasis on initiative, placed a ban on the school in 1851." "The influence of the kindergarten method is profound and the methods introduced by Froebel were in opposition to the traditonal and regimented type of schooling which had prevailed for centuries." It appears that creating a nexus to Hitler and authoritarian Nazi Germany was an error on your part.

You never went to college Archer according to what you have said. I believe you have been educated by your world wide travels. You are kind of like a jail house lawyer but in the field of politics. An educated man has respect for knowledge and for knowledgeable authority. You call anything that is organized "statism". . From your writings Archer I perceive a haughty self important individual that has not studied and is jealous of those who have such as your Ivy League friends. But I have had a great day conversing with y'all. Warren has called me a "smart guy". Archer a man did a study close to a hundred years ago and theorized that the use of carbon fuels in the industrial age would cause major climate change on this earth. Time is proving him correct, that is all. The issue is will the human race use its brain or will it act just like animals. We have been at similar impasses many times and generally have failed to make simple common adjustments, not because some did not know the facts (substance) but because it was impossible to explain (form) the substance to the great unwashed masses (thats you Archer). Thus the human race almost wiped out deer, elk etcetera. Did wipe out a great population of birds in Florida (for the millinery trade) etcetera. My only concern is that people acting like you and Warren and others for base political reasons that only you all can know, can like the people of the past, stand idly by and watch these things happen. It is irresponsible I tell you, ignorant, irresponsible and terribly uneducated of you.

Warren the Democrat Party was historically the party of the big tent and the little man. It was a broad based party whose philosophy generally ran counter to the big money whigs of the North and East. The 18th century Democrats were mostly from the south and the west. The Republicans were the narrow, self interest and one tracked party starting with the single issue of slavery and then after the war becoming the party of money replacing the whigs. You can't categorize Hitler. He was a mad man, uneducated gutter politician who learned as a young man that he had a power of oratory which would spell bind an audience. The NAZI's put him up to it and they learned that Adolph would say anyting and say it well. I told a German friend of mine however that, "Hitler used the German people." My friend said, "No, no the German people used Hitler." Some say (most recently a German Nobel prize novelist) that their was and maybe still is an evil in the German soul and this as well as 2000 years of erroneous Catholic teaching about Jews being Christ killers is what led to the holocaust, Darwinism may have helped as well as Nietsche and the bibical researchers at the University of Tubingen in the mid 1800's.

You are losing me a little bet Warren as did Archer with his "drones of statist machine" and "independent productive members of society". I think people in general including you and I hedge our use of language, words and thoughts in order to suit our immediate purposes. It is common knowledge among many that Roger Ailes and his Fox News is a politcal operation, many call it Fox Noise and for good reason. Give me McNeil-Lehrer (now deceased) and I would be happy. Warren I would be leery of any news program or politcal program that keeps telling you "Listen to us because we are fair and balanced." Hell they are doing a sales job on you right there not even letting you make up your own mind and you don't even know that they are doing that to you. Warren a further word on this prayer in school thing that the right is so big on. Did not Jesus tell us to go into our closets and pray privately to God and not to make a big show of it in public? Why don't we teach our kids what Jesus taught us to do. Global warming is science not politics. What if anything societies or nations wish to do about the science via public policy is a policy or political question Lets let the facts be the facts and not change them for our own purposes. Alwasy a pleasure conversing with you Warren.

Archer no one I know particularly the kids that walk by my home on their way to school think that they are attending "state" education. Now I know in your twisted mind you will think that this is part of the conspiracy set up by some Wizard of Oz guy somewhere that is pulling all of these strings on us. But we elect our school boards here and we know and love are teachers here etcetera as do people all over this land (well maybe not where you come from) and we pay to get these kids up to speed so they can partake in modern life as it has come to be here. Now you should go back and read your Pol Pot and figure out how you can destroy all of this and send us back to some kind of jungle. Clinton is looked at around the world in the same way he was once addressed by Robin Williams. Robin Williams said, "You Sir are a humanitarian." As far as Al Gore is concerned I can not think of a greater paragon of erudition, honor and courage. Both of these men excelled in scholarship (Clinton was a Rhodes Scholar) and are the proof of the ability of our system of education to produce great results.

Archer I agree with you wholeheartedly that the concept of education is to fill individuals with certain bodies of knowledge. This does not mean that they may not pursue other bodies of knowledge when and if they encounter them. Thus boards of folks do decide what bodies of knowledge freshman must pursure and the ability to select for oneself increases as he advances. Since as you have so eloquently stated elsewhere "truth": is absolute all paths will ultimately converge on the truth, thus some twists and turns will be pointed out for us. If education were not organized in some fashion each individual would have to learn everything on their own by experimentation. Organized education is the cheapest and fastest way to achieve knowledge. If we all, each and every one of us, had to invent algebra, geometry, medicine, anatomy etc from scratch rather than relying on books and those heroes of knowledge from the past exactly where do you think we might be. Colleges and universities are not government Archer. You jump from your mantra of government school to expunge all institutions and call them statist. Taking your logic Archer if we closed all schools, colleges and universities we could become literate again, believers in the Gold Standard and people would be natural highly educated doctors, scientists etcetera. You may call be a collectivist whatever that is in return I will say that all your opinions point to is a Pol Pot or Hitlerian scorched earth policy which would blow up all buildings of learing and execute all teachers.

Kim I have commented on putting God into schools with a fascist approach early. I don't believe God is honored by hitting our kids over the head with it. Us adults in my experience as a rule do not pray together at work or play (I did practice that however in a hospital I worked at). Why do we seek to manipulate our children in this way? I suggest it is because we can make them do whatever we want them to do right or wrong, at least until they get old enough to rebel and stop praying together just like we did.

Great quote. Among the values to be taught are the family vaues of living within ones means, staying out of burdensome debt, and good financail management. The hypocritical Republicans mouth the words "family values" all of the time but have run the Feds into 10 or is it 11 trillion dollars of debt.

Great quote. To follow it we should stop forcing children to acknowledge Divinity in the Pledge with the words "under God". This is a fascist construction instituted by the McCarthy era Republicans. God only wants volunteers to his cause not goose stepping right wing fascists.

Most communities around the world seek to educate children. School boards are grioups of elected locals. Without mandatory education laws we would live in a world of illeterates. It is a value judgement as whether or not illiteacy is better than literacy. I believe that there is a quantum leap in quality of life and "advancement" of the race caused by education and literacy.

It has been my observation that the higher one goes in any organization the more he/she isperceived to be a liar. Thus your immediate boss may be okay but the big bosses up the line who have to deal with ever larger audiences appear to be liars when they are really just nuancing there statements. Politicians of course have the hardest row to hoe in this regard.

Paine wrote this when most of the "known" world Europe that is was under monarchies, which is another word for a "kiss ass" society. In such an environment there is no free market for ideas and thus less opportunity for "truth" to.

This was during the height of the right wing McCarthy witch hunts. Our desire to contol our lives sometimes results in a desire to conrol others with whom we come in contact like the media. The proof of our freedom is in the freedom of the press and the freedom of pop culture which we might find disgusting.

Warren if you check it out the word God was not in it for about fifty years and the pledge was written by a Baptist Minister. The word God was added by do goodeer Republican politicians (greater theological minds that they are) under the leadership of Dwight D. Eisenhower. The nation was no more nor no less under God without that word in the pledge or with that word in the pledge. It was just another right wing political ploy and propaganda. Let me ask you if our nation is Under God does it mean that other nations are not Under God. Or are we more special because we are Under God and the others are not. As far as LIBERTY is concerned do you feel that forcing an individual to acknowledge divinity in this way is really very LIBERATING.

Hey Warren, Gore's nemesis Bush II believes in global warming and the GOP I believe has a plank on global warming. Why I ask you why did these people take so long to get on board, and why or why are you not on board yet. Have you no faith in Colleges and Universities around the world and those who are trained in such things. Well neither did the ignorant during the days of Copernicus, Gallileo and Columbus have any fatih either. It don't take faith Warren it takes knowledge and you obviously have none on this issue.

America and the west allowed Hitler and the Nazi's to rise to power because he claimed to be anti-communist. His climb to power was based on "socialism yes but not international socialism but National Socialism" in other words Deutscheland Uberalles. Germany over all. He was not a socialist. Nazi'sm was a right wing party aligned with German industry. Propaganda my friend Warren can come from any quarter. Internationalism is based on the idea of brotherhood of man (a little like America with "brotherhood from sea to shining sea") remember that sentiment Warren? Propaganda comes from Rush Limbaugh. As far as burning and trashing the books that is what the nay sayers are doing with the science of global warming by failing to give any credence to the scientific community.

Yes Mr. Madison.

Mr. Rogers you are failing to remember that Hitler and the Nazi's burned all the books of knowledge and killed all the intellectuals. I mean talk about propaganda and thought control. They really got you pal.

Hitler was just like PT Barnum recognizing the foolishness of people. As far as propaganda the right wing is the best at it. They changed Estate Tax to Death Tax so that the dumbest can relate to the issue even if not understanding it at all. Some fall for he propaganda that the "Income Tax is voluntary" or "The US is a republic not a democracy" etcetera. The propaganda that "I'll cut your taxes and then sell the government into 10 trillion or is it now 11 trillion of debt and bankruptcy". If you let one of these lies fester we will go down a slippery slope just like the German people did. Keep 'em honest.

To be open minded and to listen is to the fanatic a sure sign of dementia, fickleness or wishy washyness. I chose the name Waffler just to indicate my openess. Those people who have crossed the line, chosen sides whether it be the virulent anti-government cop haters, or the "US is a Republic not a democracy" crowd or those who put their heads in the sand to avoid unpleasant and inconvenient truths of scientific facts have nothing left in argument but to persecute. Jim fanatic is defined as "unreasonable zeal". What do the global warming messangers have to gain personally by spreading their message. It is a sad state of affairs this global warming and many don't like the bearers of bad news like Al Gore. The fanatics are those who are "inordinately and unreasonably enthusisastic" in opposition to the science for their own selfish reasons.

I think you are full of it Mike. You talk like a member of the Black Panthers! Cops are like that because they are overworked and understaffed and that is why they cannot get to all cases. Janet you must have learned what Mikey has not, that government is at best benign. It cannot stop all crime or catch all criminals. By prosecuting some government hopes to stop the rest. It does not have the resources to solve all crime or catch all criminals.