It sounds like Mr Walden pond yearns for the same thing as the Communists cry for "the withering away of the state". What I feel he forgets in his dream is that individuals are a higher and independent power but do form associations, alliances, groups and parties to get things of a social, politcal or community nature done. I have recently driven through some of the remotest places I have been in the United States, in southern New Mexico. I found people living their lives I guess similar to what Thoreau did on Walden Pond, but they also seemed to be at peace with their neighbors, state, and national government. That an individual is higher or above all other individuals combined is where I think Mr. Thoreau goes a little off of the deep end. He apparently wishes to be "an island unto himself" which as we know someone has told us is impossible.

I am no authority (as I am sure you Archer well know) but I understand that an Amendment was passed that allowed the Feds to levy an Income Tax on individuals without apportionment among the states. I am sure that you claim such Amendment to be unconstitutional but that was certainly a increase in Powers. Further I am surprised that you don't consider the entire Constitution to be unconstitutional. Again thank God Jefferson does not have to weep over you guys sorry logic anymore.

I may be wrong in my phraesology but what do you call folk who deny the Amendment Process and therefore The Constitution. Give me a name please! Okay how about just nuts, period.

Archer is correct above I meant to say "If the nation (instead of we) has to fight another civil war to redeem the sacrifice made in 1861 and in 1776 and to stop Old Thomas Jefferson from turning over in his grave becasue of this secess crowd currently investing our nation I say (repeat I say) bring it on.

How so J. The quote and the coments on it attempt to say that Jefferson was for disunion or secession. His quote from 1820 attests to his abiding belief and faith in the Union. What is twisted in your opinion?

Amendments were and will be ratified by the States. To deny the Amendment process is to deny The Constitution which most of the right wing nuts do all of the time.

PPSS: The way to reconcile these two quotes of Jefferson is to conclude that in the first he meant let the unwise people go (ship them out or whatever) because in the second quote he obviously is not for secession, he if for disunion. I agree for thsoe who individuals who do not want to be in the Union let'em go. As for the provines or states, no way!

Mike in your view is being ordered to take a bath by the state before swimming in a public pool, one of the rights left to the state or to the people. Further is a state by making such a law infringing on the rights of the people? Would you care to organize, or support, a movement to bring about freedom, liberty, inalienable rights on this issue.

..and of Amendments, he so conspicuosly failed to add.

Cal, Jefferson said the people should revolt every generation or every twenty years. The Amendment process is the best method the people have of doing that.

Absolutelyy! The biggest power (enumerated in The Constitution) is left to the people and that is the Power of Amendment. And Amend it we have. The enumerated powers in Marshalls day are not the same as the enumerated powers of today.

"I regret that I am to die in the belief that the useless sacrifice of themselves by the generation of 1776, to acquire self-government and happiniess to their country, is to be thrown awaw by the unwise and unworthy passions of their sons, and that my only consolation is to be, that I live not to weep over it. If they would but dispassionately weigh the blessings they will throw away, against an abstract principle more likely to be effected by union than by secession, they would pause before they would perpetuate this act of suicide on themselves, and of treason against the hopes of the world. To yourself, as the faithful advocate of the union, I tender the offering of my high esteem and respect." Thomas Jefferson ltr to John Holmes 22 April 1820. While Tom is not here to weep over the comments of you all as stated above I weep in his place because of y'all daily. If Texas leaves, I suggest we ship all the people to the Sahara and fill the state up again with Unionists as we did the first time in 1848. As far as the Civil War the lives were not wasted anymore than were the lives in 1776, the Civil War redeemed those lives and Union which they set in motion. If we have to do it a third time, so be it. The sacrifices of the generation of 1776 and 1861 shall not have been in vain, and the hope of the world shall not be extinguished by the likes of the comments posted above. To take Jefferson out of context and twist his words and his life to fit your own twisted perverted opinions, Mike shame on you, shame, shame, shame on you.

Cuba in effect left its relationship with the US and stole billions of dollars of American property and we hate them for it. Most of Texas is probably owned by the DuPonts, Rockefellows etcetera. What shall be done with all of this stolen property? Maybe Texas can join with Cuba and be communists. Jefferson was a motor mouth. Brownsville Texas was founded by Stillman who later founded the First National Bank of New York which is now known as City Bank or Citi. Texas is and was nothing without the easterners. Those who died at the Alamo were not Texans they were from Kentucky, Tennessee and Indiana etc. I give it a thumps down because it has to many periods in it, I wonder what the entire passage really says. I will check it out.

Good to have you on board YOUR SISTER. You are right on about Social Security footing the bill that Income Tax should have been footing for yeats. The Income Tax owes the Social Security fund about 2 trillion dollars. It is past time that we corrected this problem. The only way to do it is to raise the income tax particularly on Bushes frineds who he gifted when he got elected.

What are these powers, can some one name a few?

Could someone state some of the rights that are not disparaged or denied and are or should be retained by the people? Some citizens of the world think the US is a very free and open society, why do some Americans feel the opposite way?

Archer is correct that majority opinion is not truth but he may fail to further state that neither is minority opinion.What states did not join the USA? We all pay for insurance of others when we shop at Wal-Mart. Those companies that corner the market through better producsts, engineering etc. have the best insurance for their employees. We pay for it in the pruchase price of their products. Need I mention auto companies, aerospace, retailers by name. Those who work for small companies or are self employed pay through the nose for their plans. In this democracy policy is determined by the majority or by a minority with the willingness of an apathetic or inarticulate or lazy minority. Some times people just go along without thinking or participating. But that is their own fault in this free country. On occasion policy goes forward as the majority wishes and they change their minds later reversing said policy. History over the millenium has shown this to be the best approach.

I never said that, now you prove that not only do you not know English or logic but cannot read. Was the nation, the Articles, The Constitution instituted, ratified, were the wars, and fights and laws passed by a minority or by a majority. Again you worship the contrary, the nut, versus the common sense, the majority opinion. We are a nation a society a government where the largest number determine what is common sense not some nut or religious perversion gets to dictate what is right. You are a slave to nut worship or have to be what you think is different or unique because at heart you are a slave to misanthropy or a hatred of mankind.

And you don't speak anyones logic. We The People is just what it says. What The Constitutions says is that a majority to form a more perfect Union, the thing then had to be ratified by a the states. One "We The People" such as yourself could not derail the thing, and you cannot derail the thing now so why don't you quit trying. When Jefferson said that each generation should have its' own revolution he was on the cusp of what "We The People" should mean in my view. Now the minority who have a different view than "We The People" are free to stay or go however they wish but they should obey "We The People" or suffer the consequences such as in New Mexico bathe before swimming in public or go to jail.

You are a would be dictator when you think that YOU are "We The People". You speak for yourself and I for myself. Our opinions taken together become policy of We The People when they are in a majority. For example to say that We The People are against Health Care Reform for example and yet Congress elected by the people and surveys say a majority is for reform and the minority Republicans say reform is needed (just not this reform) for you to say you are We and the real We is an alien infesting this land, well what more can I say. Can you not understand plain English. You wish to dictate by saying that your opinion is We The People totally ignoring what the polls, votes and Congressional majority thinks, that my friend is dictatorship of one-you. The Republicans held sway for 8 years and a number of years in Congress We The People was a little different than it is today. We The People are yes fickle and changeable, get use to it.

Without consumerism where would capitalists and industrialists be. Who is going to buy the toilet paper anyway, if not consumers?

Some are fascinated by her David but I don't think her ideas hold water. There is a universe wide difference between ideology and real world pragmatism.

I meant to say that Mike thinks he is "we the people" and further he thinks that the "people" are a "statist theocracy that has infested this land". Mike you are not "we the people" neither am I. You need some new logic and new vocabulary.

Mike is a would be dictator thinking his view should always carry the day, and if an opposing view carries the day then the people have veen thawarted and the majoriyt of people are statist theocrats.

Warren says I am rare and I love that description and suggest that it attests to my individuality. On the contrary I find the mind sets of the like of Mike and Archer to be in lock step with the likes of Rush and etal, not refreeshing, thinking at all. I give credit to Warren also because he does speak for truth when he sees it as in reference to the cause of the Civil War the other day. Our opinions are worth nothing if we cannot learn and rely on facts.