I truly appreciate Warrens words as a compliment. I would be interested in knowing what he means by "a site like this". Exactly what type of site is this anyway. I came on this site because I thought it was not a "type" of site but that it was about "liberty" which I love dearly and a site in which I could be free to express myself. That is what I do. Back to White Sands for I believe it is very appropos to Carlton's isssue of Imminent Domain. My grandfathers and yours paid the taxes to acquire the land that became New Mexico. That some ranchers bought some of it and claim therfore the right to own and manage it for the next millenium is an affront to our grandfathers in my opinion. Archer loses of again, as usual.

Good to have you back Juggs. You got these guys number real time. The one guy above criticizes gov for being wide open by appointing Muslims, which is a practical example of American freedom of religion and then this Archer guy complaining about the lack of free speech by being less than happy with the worst journalistic enterprize in America. Fox is not by any standard a news orgainization anymore than Rush is, they are organizations (fifth column movements if you will) that are trying to form and influence news not report it. They have their rights to do what they do but we have are rights to be discerning and critical listeners, sadly most of these guys are neither discerning or critical. (PS: Archer was discerning once the other day concerning a quote but that is few and very far between.). Stay on board Juggs we really need you, man!

Mike is so arrogant to call the people's choice (currently Obama for example) as "who will represent the state" whild his vote is always for "individuals who will represent the people". Mike it is so sad that you cannot see your hypocrisy and dictatorail mind set. You like Archer are not individualist as you dream to be but simple attackers against any vestige of people power or organization represented by the smallest org such as a homeowners org, village, city, state etc. You Mike always claim to be "for the people" while whatever the "people are for" is anathema to you. I know nothing about where Archer stands accept like Spooner he appears to stand four square for misanthropy.

Those who think voting is a waste of time or that their opinions don't matter should read and heed. Just because your vote or opinion does not carry the day does not mean it is useless. To think that your vote or opinion should always carry the day is to wish to be a dictator.

I have recently experienced imminent domain Carlton at White Sands Missile Range. Uncle took the whole thing away from the ranchers in order to test the bomb and fire missiles. The whole endeavor led us into the missile age and to the moon. I understand the ranchers descendants are still pissed. As far as independent thought all you guys are in lock step and I am the one who is independint, so what the hell is Archer talking about as usual. I am forescore in favor of rights for the individual and for the rights of society, when they are in conflict I will consider each case on its merits. As far as White Sands the entire thing a state as well as the entire west was acquired by the American people via their government located in Washington, DC. That anyone individual or his posterity should lay claim to it to use it for ever and ever thereafter for any purpose desired without regard to society or the public good might be considered by some a stretch of individual rights. I am sure it would not be considered such by some of y'all. Again compare Archer and the rest of your comments to mine and decide who is the individualist and who is the individualist wannabe.

Yes Cal but the 51% and 49% are not static. In an honesty society people are slipping in and out of the majority and minority all of the time on different issues. Those who say there is no difference in policy, views, etc between political parites are just not into nuance or are just to shallow to listien.

Lysander is always in such a conundrum. I don't know why a guy like this just does not put a bullet to his own head. Otherwise I think his statement is true. Those who say voting does not work should read the news about Democrats rethinking their strategy after a few republicans won some governorships. Politics is about public opinion and as Eisenhower said governing from the middle of it. Lysander is correct but I think he and us need to grow up to the real world in which we live. No man is an island unto himself as Lysander appears to wish to be.

Mike a question for you "What is a statist theocracy"? J I love my F250 6.0 diesel. I have been driving it all over NM the last week, visiting all the statist sites like White Sands Missile Range, New Mexico States International Space Science Museum, AF Bases (Holloman, Cannon) etcetera, Mike is right about one thing it seems that the state or society or whatever you call it is everywhere out here Mike what do you mean by social engineering. Back in the '40's it was illegal for a negro and white to marry in California. A couple apparently sued the state and the law was changed. Which was social engineering, the law banning the practice or the court that over turned it. The law which controlled people and claimed to protect unborn children from a mixed heritage or the court which freed people and tossed the unborn into a brave new world.

I like Thoreau, but I find him a bit rambling here, I find it interesting that those who find the late US society, laws, government, and congress to be so appalling have a soul brother in Thoreau, He found it appalling in 1830 a time, society and government, which some long for us to return to. What this phenomenon suggests is that it is not society, government, or congress that is the problem. There will always be individuals like Thoreau or Mike or Archer who regardless of the status of society, government or congress will be naysayers, bitchy, nasty negativists.

I agree that politics is polite warfar, but as history has shown both apparently are necessary since they have always existed. If something has always existed and seems inescaple, it may even be a moral horror, but I suggest that it is not a moral WRONG! It is the cards we have been dealt.

This man must be an idiot. Firstly he should define what he is talking about when he says RIGHTS. Using his approach all board meetings, city council meetings, family meetings where things are decided by consensus or majority, etcetera would be null and void and only chaos would ensue. Of course there are areas in which we have inalienable rights, we even have right to our own opinion but only part does "our" opinion rule the day, that is when the two out of three rule comes in very handy. Of course the losing side in any vote can walk awasy, leave the organization, the society, or the nation.

Of the choices last November Obama had the cleanest (if you will) personal life. He had been married once, good grades, high achiever in University, McCain was a West Point almost flunky, a fighter pilot playboy, twice married etcetera, Biden well he is nothing less than saintly in his personal life. Palin well let us not get into that. So in any measure of term decent I think Obama had the upper hand last November.

The voter must understand that he is a voter not a dictator. Some on this site occasionally appear to want to be dictators and not voters. Being a voter means to be respectful of the vote and of others opinions.

Kudo's for Archer, He finally really nailed one. This is so unlike Jefferson and taken wholly out of context of the volume of his work. He is the guy that said people should revolt every generation etcetera. And he certainly supported representative governnent which is choice by the people. In the short run the people obviously make mistakes but in the long run history has shown the people's choice to be the better way.

Thoreau is absolutely correct that the our personal destiny and our national destiny depends on each of us individually but he is incorrect and speaks against the Constitution since he is speaking against representative government which the Constitution established and enhanced over the years. Proof that as he says the man or men on the street matter is the latest public opinion campaign being launced by RePower America. Check it out on the net. If our vote does not matter then why complain about getting one or the other politician. Why all the railing about Obama if it doesn't matter. Mike probably buys Japanese and Korean cars subsidized, aided and abetted by the Japanese and Korean governments who give their people universal health care etc.

The change was we got a thinking and decent spoken man in the White House. I was in a small west Texas town three weeks ago. Marathon, pop 500. Bush and party had come to town a week earlier and occupied the entire hotel which his friend owned. The local chef who served the party and spoke to his honor said what a nice guy and well spoken person he was. The chef said Bush was nothing like he appeared to us on television for 8 years. I think Bush's problem for eight years were his handlers, Cheney plus his silly political affilation..

Yeah I feel sorry for the fools every time I see a McCain/Palin sign. Now John is okay I like him but how he ever picked and how any non-fool free man could vote for Palin is a total mystery. Carlton the Constitution says nothing about an Administration of Professional Managers but everything about electing reprsentatives. You know nothing about the Constitution.

If you vote, I understand that you are suppose to vote your self interest. Hopefully you vote your self interest in the long run not the short run. Of course short run decisions have been made throughout history, just look at the disasters we made of the Everglades, water pollution, rape of the land etcetera, all for short run go-go issues. The thoughtful long run guys need more support guys like Al Gore. Check out Repower America for how you can vote and support your long run interests.

Ayn Rand "nuff said" This quote is just BS and can be applied any way you wish. It could easily be applied to the roraring twenties or the derelect anti regulation society of Bush II. Only Roosevelt was able to counter the corrupt society Ayn seems to chronicl here that exiested in the 20's. Ayn and her hair brain ideas have been debunked all over the net. Now she sounds ideolocically interesting, just like Star Wars and other fantasies, but lets get real.

Those who see their lives spoiled and wasted blame it on governmnet rather then themselves, they go on talk shows and internet sites and bitch at government rather than actually doing something real and constructive.

Ayn Rand 'nuff said! The Russian woman who loved skyscrapers and the men who built them.

Good analysis RBESRQ and good eye just wondering! What the heck gives here.

There are first causes and underlying causes. The first immediate cause was secession. The underlying cause and the reason for secession was slavery. I love it when Warren and I can agree on something. He and I (I believe) have always agreed on the real cause of the Civil War and he is right on target above.

Sumner always writes like an idiot to me. Here he obviously has never heard of democracy where ABCDEFG etc all vote and where all of them adhere to the outcome. It would appear that he would prefer chaos where each just does their own thing and turns a blind to every one else. He would prefer no human organization whatsoever. No such society has ever or will exist. It is anathema to society.

THE CIVIL WAR WAS! ABOUT SLAVERY. The south seceded because they saw that Lincoln would move to end slavery. They knew about his "house divided speech" and knew that his new Republican Party was an abolitionist party. Contray to Fitzhugh the Federal Governmet was and still is in the business of insuring LIBERTY for all just as it did by winning the Civil War at great cost I remind you. 150,000 Union deaths to 75,000 Confederate deaths. The industrial revolution was brutal to workingmen every where it is true. That pragmatism has prevailed over ideologies like capitalism, socialism etc is the greatest accomplisment of these United States.