J Carlton brings up a subject concerning who is logical. A study has been conducted that found that the most religious of societies seem to have the least logic amd the most problems. This goes along with the lyrics of Stevie Wonder when he wrote in Supersition - "If you believe in things you don't understand, you suffer.". The so called right wing in the USA led by none other than Rush has the most illogical positions imaginable starting with the stupid construction, "republic not a democracy" and his logic goes down hill from there.

Why do you say that J? Would Germany have won in your opinion? My opinion of what caused the WWII was of course the overbearing treatment of a defeated Germany in WWI but also a failure of the isolationist Republican Congress to ratify Wilsons League of Nations. The UN replaced the inepte League of which we were not a member and voila! there has not been a WW since.

Yes Mike absolutely and free men get to choose together what type of medical system and its distribution they would like to have not to exclude the individuals right to do his own thing. Opinions are great but it would be nice to see facts on occasion. Medicare uses 3% of its income for administration, insurance and HMO's use 20%. I personally know of one HMO in which the CEO received a one million dollar salary. Financial services including and especially insurance is a shell game that most common folk have no knowledge of and can be easily and are hoodwinked. How do you think Prudential, MetLife and all of the rest got so rich? By manipulating actuarial tables, collecting premiums and denying claims. That is the game folks and Canada is not the absolutely best but has some good features. It has 2.1 docs per thousand, Belgium has 4.2. Belgium and Germany I have heard have better health care than Canada. Much of the industrialized world has a different value system than the US. Australia, Japan, Canada, and Europe see health care as a basic humaan right. We see it as a right based on how good of an employer you have (such as IBM. GM or the US Senate etc) If you work for someone else, tough S**t. Of course all of us that buy the products of those great companies pay for their great health insurance in the price of their products. To those companies credit they know that a healthy work force is a productive work force and they attract the best people. We need to get the value systems of those great companies into our public arena so that we can become a happy and productive people.

He may have been correct about the immediate situation in Texas but overspoke his reasons. Like Pierce before his inference from the specific Texas case and Pierce's mental health case to the general case of what The Constitution says or meant is unfortunate. I feel certain these guys would have opted out of the second world war do to the fact that it was just a charitable effort in which we should not get involved in. When local jurisdictions like Texas droughts, San Francisco earthquakes, and New Orleans floods occur the foll should just be left alone according to these guys. One star for thought provoking.

Government is by its very nature a charitable endeavor. All benefit from the common infrastructure created by folk coming together and creating roads and interstates, parks, and hospitals etcetera. One person may pay more in taxes than another. These common works of public property are legacies and a form of charity to our children and grandchildren. The coming together of folk in these ways is to be charitable, and I appreciate what are fore fathers have done for me by coming together to build this nation and "its general welfare". Everyone wants there own to fare well, but hate the word wel-fare, strange is it not. Pierce has never been sited as one of our star performers and now we can see why.

All of your comments taken together and especially Mike's insertion of the health care issue it would seem that Adam would prefer a system in which each person doctored and nursed themselves. I have heard of some uncommon folks who have performed their own appendectomies and who knows what other medical procedures. In honor of Adam and the the times maybe our slogan should be "Each man his own doctor and nurse"! Justin is on to something and if anyone thinks that we do not live in an interdependent world they are really smoking some good stuff. I give it a five for poetry but take away three for how it can cause irrational thinking.

Mike obviously sees his own and his group as superior in motive and in results to any other charitable efforts especially those organized and orchestrated by "government". I am surronded by people who only see the world from their owm little corner and think that their little town mentality is the way New York, London, and Bombay should be run. People have to have a way to rise above self and see a bit of a larger piece of the world.

This guy should have been thrown out into the woods when he was born. I would like to see how he woiuld have liked that and what would have become of him. Maybe this makes a good argument for letting homelessness and truancy alone and see what becomes of people. As for Shaw he was highly educated and could not have made this statement or be listened to and quoted if he were not.

Notice how happy and pleased Jefferson is in this quote, he expresses surprise that things worked out so well. The founders were not absolutists nor shoukd our republic be.

The founders dud not know what they were doing they were only guessing. They guessed pretty good and juat to be safe in case they were wrong they gave us The Amendment Process. And we used to further the republican/democratic stance of the nation by provideing direct popuilar election of Senators and popular election of the electoral college. The founders started off a little on an aristocratic tangent because of the fear they had of the people as evidenced in Shays Rebellion in Western Massachusettes and similar unrest among the people in Virginia.A republic is basically rule by the people or by those who are governed rather than by a monarch, dictator etc. Yes many nations use the term hypocritically today but it started out as a term of self government, and a territroy who had such a government within its boundaries was called a republic. I disagree that a republic is some type of codified set in concrete institution,.

J obviously missed the previous quote about how the monarchy and Lords of England are stopped by the control of the people via their democratic parliament. Don;t forget that North Korea is a repulic also. A republic without democracy ain't worth nothing at all. Absolutely zilch. If you want to live that way why not go to North Korea.

Sadly many have been Rushed into believing that a republican form of governmetn is different than a democracy. Jefferson was referring to a form of government "of, by and for" the people. That is what a republican fomr is and that is what a democracy is. Like the other quote about English government the people provide the checks and balances. US governance has become more republican/democratic and less aristocratic with the popular election of Senators and Presidents. The framers tried to put in a little bit of aristocracy with their original plans but democracy and republicanism triumphed over that. God Save America and our glorious republican/democratic tradition.

I think you guys need to acquaint yourselfs with The Lotus Sermon. That was when the Buddhist Holy man called his disciples together for a sermon. When he was introduced he just stood there holding the lotus flower and said nothing for a period of ltime. He then said "the sermon is ended" and asked his disciples what the sermon meant. All disciples except one had somewhat to say about this silent sermon. But one disciple said nothing and the Holy leader said that that disciple was the one who was true to the spirit of The Lotus Sermon and should be the Leader upon his retirement. Speak truth and then shut up is what the sermon meant. The flower spoke beauty and creation. Expounding was usless especially to dullards. It is sad that Mike thinks in such narrow group think kind of ways. Who can believe that he actually thinks that government people are not Christians or that Christians are not government people. No wonder he sees in black and white calling public schools "state schools" and non Christian and anti God. The kids I know in my town that go to his so called state schools all go to churches and they don't need or want the community schools to teach them about God, nor did the founding fathers. Mike is the one who wishes school to be a dictator about things like that.

Mike I am saying that a teacher in your so called state school in around 1957 which would be about 8th grade stated his opinion that Army life is like communism. Now how hard is that event to understand and how thick headed are you really? In your opinion does the fact that a teacher appears to teach something counter to the states principles of military draft etcetera seem to indicate that counter to your opinion that public or state schools support a party line or line dictated by some sinister force that you call "the state", that public school teachers (state school teachers) are perfectly free to teach in accordance with their conscience rather than some state control. You are the thickest person I know.

Hey Cal there are some groups who teach that it is all one book, all one God and God does not change The so called New Testament is not new but a continuation and completion. Christ was promised to come in Genesis, came in the Gospels, was preached about in the Epistles, and promised to return again in Revelation. All one truth, nothing added.

When one tells the truth he should then just shut up. It is like telling the boss you are late because 1) you had a flat tire and 2) the wife burnt the coffee and had to start a new pot. Well only one reason is necessary, the true reason.

I have dealt with some who if there is not a taint of fraud or cheating involved they don't want anything to do with it. People avoid the truth in order to seek their self gratification and edification. Does not the Bible also say man is to keep the 7th Day holy, that is Saturdiay, Sabbath, Sabado in Spanish and yet what does man do instead. Just a fundamental example of anger or laughter in the face of the incontrovertible word of the Bible.

It seems sometimes many try to overturn simple facts and plain truth but yes there it is!

Some times this type of behavior is necessary. Like reporting crime and illegal immiragration or yeah remember the Committes of Correspondence and Paul Revere's Ride. Let us not think that we are above being more than just stupid bystanders as the world spins out of control around us Freedom on occasion does require thoughtful people to act and some times cooperatively. May we always have the wisdom to know the right times to act versus the times to confront the urge to act.

You understand wrong Mike. The example of a school teacher in your so called state school told me and my classmates that he thought Army life was a kind to communism. I have never forgotten that and I may or may not agree with him but he said this in a state school which supposedly supports the states Army. What does that example say about your position that state schools express only state propaganda. I honestly believe that your entire thesis is wrong. How you came by your logic that public schools, colleges and universities in this country support some propagansistic party or state government line is way beyon me. I do not ever expect you to explain yourself. Just continue on in your delirium..

I had an 8th grade history teach in public school who stated his opinion that the US Army was a form of communism. Now was that public school free for teachers to express their opinion or was it some kind of "state" controlled institution. What most parents and folk on this site are in afraid of is the fact that they or persons of their choosing are not controlling and teaching their children. At heart their afraid that their children may actually be FREE. Free of them and their little limited inward looking world.

I repeat especially for chickenshi* anonymous from Taylor County above who ain't even smart enough to come up with a decent handle for his BS. Harvard was started CA 1636 by the "state" of its time the Puritan society of Massachusetts Bay crowd, just like Wm and Mary was started by the Williamsburg Virginia crowd, and The College of New Jersey now Princeton by the New Jersey crowd. Today we have state Universities and colleges in all 50 states and county community colleges every where all established by their respective crowds. Now why it was acceptable in the 1600's for crowds to establsish colleges for their progeny and we honor those institutions because communism and statism had not yet been invented but now some look down their noses at 50 separate crowds (now called states) who have done the same thing as the founders did 150 years before the founding and we call it "statism" big brother etcetera. I ALSO REPEAT THE FOUNDERS WERE NOT EDUCATED AT HOME OR BY HOME SCHOOLING. THEY ATTENDED THESE SOCIETY OR STATE SCHOOLS IF YOU WILL THAT EXISTED FOR DECADES IF NOT 100 YEARS BEFORE THEY ATTENDED. Obviously what is going on here as M. Brown and Anonymous above are proving is that we are being dumbed down from the fine educations achieved via society ie state estabished schools to a desire for a backwoods education.

Harvard Universtiy was started by the Puritan fathers and was the school of the society of Massachusetts. Just like Princeton known as The College of New Jersey whne Madison attended and Wm and Mary were the schools of their respective societies. Just what is a "state" education Howard. The societies of each of the 50 states have established Colleges and Universities which are run by Boards or Regents variously appointed by the Governors and citizens of those societies similar I would assume as was Harvard and Princeton. In your mind which one of 50 students attending each of those institutions would be attending a "state" school in your mind. My nephew has a Phd. from Wash Univ. St Louis. He teaches at Ohio State Univ. a public or state school. Do you think he is a tool of the "state" or is an insidious spy from the the private world. Just what is state schooling in your view. That schools are run by states is a total myth. Tell me where is this thing call a state that runs schools. .

He is correct. THE CHURCH always hated first the reformation, second protestantism, and third human freedom. It may have learned and toned down its megalomaniacal tendencies but they were always there.

The words of desperate frightened men who have backed into a corner.