“Fascism should rightly be called Corporatism as it is a merge of state and corporate power.”

I could not describe what is happening in the USA any better!

Too true...

I love it, but unfortunately, it's most likely not true. Public Eye, a progressive watchdog organization did research, and could not find any documented proof that Mussolini said this: http://www.publiceye.org/fascist/corporatism.html Shame, I was so ready to slap it on a t-shirt!

Thanks, Carl. The quote source has been re-classified as 'Questionable'.

All societies are in league with their "private businesses". Society and business that work against each other is counterproductive. If a business does not perform a useful function it will disappear. The issue in "state capitalism" is in how decisions are made. We are now seeing a merger of state (society) and corporate power in the effort to go to alternative energy. Unfortunately Fascism was much more than Benito's simple formulation.

If Benito didn't say this , he should have. It's exactly what fascism is. Harry of Grand Rapids is right.

Corporations are creations and entities of the state. Much like church and state, business and state should be separated. It is government's job to administer law (including laws concerning fiscal matters, theft, nobility of life, rights, etc.) and justice. It is when government mingles with business that fascism acts against the individual sovereign - energy and financing are but 2 examples. I converted my natural gas furnace to run alcohol that I made from potatoes in a solar still. Next I'm going to convert my furnace to run on hydrogen from water. I'm currently running my car on gas and water (hydrogen converter) and am planning on setting up a generator for my home that runs purely on hydrogen from water (I have a neighbor that is doing it now) Corporate fascism, supported by state dumbing down propaganda, has made the individual and society dependent on its manipulations and tyranny - killing (by force where necessary) individual / independent power sources.

This Mussolini DID say: "The Fascist conception of the State is all-embracing; outside of it no human or spiritual values can exist, much less have value. Thus understood, Fascism is totalitarian, and the Fascist State -- a synthesis and a unit inclusive of all values -- interprets, develops, and potentiates the whole life of a people. ... The Fascist State lays claim to rule in the economic field no less than in others; it makes its action felt throughout the length and breadth of the country by means of its corporate, social, and educational institutions, and all the political, economic, and spiritual forces of the nation, organised in their respective associations, circulate within the State. ... State intervention in economic production arises only when private initiative is lacking or insufficient, or when the political interests of the State are involved. This intervention may take the form of control, assistance or direct management." -- Benito Mussolini, 1935, Fascism: Doctrine and Institutions.

Mike, what hydrogen converter are you using and what hydro generator do you recommend? We are using solar and bio-diesel but are intrigued with the latest personal hydro power devices now showing up. If you've got something that is proven to be working, I am interested. Thanks in advance.

To E Archer: There is something similar at work here in AK. http://savefuelak.com/

My car is still in experimental mode. I've found much better units than mine. I went from 22mpg on my mini SUV to about 30. It is basically stainless steel plates in a PVC tube - kinda like a battery. It works well on desiel (bio or otherwise) engines also. I'll keep you informed. You can google 'water for gas' and start from there. The neighbor is using several banks of converters, then compressing it into propane tanks. He then has some sort of modified propane carburetor on his in-line 6 cyl car engine hooked up to a generator. Sovereigns really need to become independent of the corporate power grid.

A corporation is simply the coming together of inidviudals (stockholders) in a united effort. A corporation is under law a "person". Because stockholders come and go at will the underlying human face or humanity of the corporation changes and it seems to have a life of its own. But it is still "a person", except with the salient feature/ability to raise large amounts of money and do big things. Mike you are wrong about them being "creations and entities" of the state. States reconginze and acknowledge their creation just like they acknowledge a humans birth but anyone can form a corporation almost at will. I could start one tomorrow and be the 100% stockholder. One of the 50 states would recognize it. The US Govt simply accepts the existance based on state law.

Mike my diesel F250 ways 8800 lbs. and gives me 26 miles to the gallon at 46 miles per hour.

Waffler, corporations are bifurcations of title with the state being the equitable creator. What you've described is the lawful half of the bifurcation. Just because you don't understand the fundamentals of the issue and are mostly right in your limited explanation, does not make me wrong. Discussions on the 16th Amendment prior to its implementation talked about impacting such state entities as corporations. That's great about your truck. One of the people I'm working with is running a little over 30 mpg at 80 mph, fully loaded, with his diesel Ford (and its much cleaner, better for the environment).

It does well describe all western governments at this time in history. And Waffler's point is correct. The reverse of that point is this....when you're government calls YOU a Person it is referring to the "corporate" you. The you who is government property, the you who's posessions can be disposed of almost at will by your owners...the you who can be taxed without (genuine) representation. That's what a "person" is, so always refer to yourself as an individual. Because that's what you really are. :)

J individuals are persons and persons are individuals. The US Tax code says "there shall be a tax on any individual who". Some argue that they are not an individual but a person. The dictionary defines a person as an individual and vice a versa. I disagee with your construction Mike. The state is not a co-creator just a recognizer of the facts on the ground, alas, "a new corporation has come into being". They may however, I agree, estop or deny an incorporation that is for the purpose of performing any illegal act.

Waffler, I understand your position. You can only accept half truths because, the rest of the story, doesn't allow for your immoral despotism of choice. Your comments do make good banter and, helps afford an education for those who have only seen or heard the despots sound bites.

I don't know what the hell you are talking about Mike, but that is not unusual. Fascism is usually contrasted with Communism. Under communism the "state" owned everything. Under fascism the "state" formed links to corporations to assert its will. Hitler with German industrialists etc. The problems wtih both systems is the same as the problem we have with many of the views on this site , both systems were undemocratic. Your posts don't make good banter and are usually an exercise in stupidity. Exeercise is good for the mind so if it helps you keep it up but it is not helpful to anyone else, stop kidding yourself.

..laughs.. well, at least Waffler acknowledges that he doesn't understand what's being talked about.

It doesn't matter WHO said it, it's true...and that it's been more prominent under a so-called conservative administration is rather interesting. I doubt the fools in charge even recognize what they've done. In fact, I doubt most of us understand the reality of what's happened in the last month and who is responsible.

For all practical purposes Fascism and Communism are the same. Total control of every thing by the state.

You people really need a dictionary. Communism is not "everything owned by the state" the concept of communism is "everything owned by the people" It is the penultimate liberal democratic ideal. The real dirty trick "they" pull on "us" is that fascism is also a liberal ideal, going back for decades: If people own the corporations and the corporations are in bed with the state the fascism is the same as communism. Either way we all get sceed.

are there any quotes about mussolini out there in the world my assessment is due 2morrow

Mussolini should know..... even if he didn't actually say this quote... It's amazing how the symbol for fascism appears on so many buildings and documents....

True values, solidarity born from Independence, Liberty and Freedom. These values indicated by rebellion are the basis for human solidarity. Which derives from our relationship with God and not the state. Hence our Christian Physiocratic beginnings, setting the foundation of and for our continued support of the Republican form of government. Fascism, demands solidarity without moral constraint, at the point of a gun, and a set of chains. Now the people feel the binding and tightening of the chains !

I would like to add, Some of our founding Fathers were Master Builders to assure a ( plumb and square ) foundation, a true keel of measurement in one accord with God's nature and true goodness. Within our ranks they are still observed.
Semper Fi

Ron, your reference to plumb and square is very appropriate. Anciently, a Hebrew jurisprudence would be called equity today (no reference to Greek, Latin or early British equity). Then it had no name but was a compilation of that which is the origin of light (love, truth, faith, knowledge, etc. - that which is God) The antithesis to equity - iniquity was more directly used. The Hebrew word "qav" would be the line on the plumb which was a measure of uprightness, righteousness, etc. That is the foundation of the phrase line upon line. The endowment of liberty was truly an inspired plumb and square. We can go into the square on another day. Thanks for the comment

The socialists would have you believe there are only 2 wings, right and left.  When in fact, right and left are both socialist wings: fascism and communism — both socialist in their party names.

A better ruler would be Liberty vs Authoritarianism, or Individualist vs Collectivist, or Self vs State, Natural Law vs Statutory Rules, Independent vs Dependent, or Responsible vs Not Responsible. Freedom vs Totalitarianism.

Americans have adopted fascism as the de facto power by using corporate power to regulate the attitudes and behavior of the People.  The mark of the beast is required to be given access to society.  I suppose the biggest surprise is how quickly authoritarianism is being embraced and demanded by the populace.  Most Americans support fascism, state and corporate rule, because they are dependent upon those systems for their jobs. 

The power to declare entire classes of people as non-essential is the crime of the century! 

And can only happen in a country that has yielded their rights to an arbitrary authority.