“The more one considers the matter, the clearer it becomes that redistribution is in effect far less a redistribution of free income from the richer to the poorer, as we imagined, than a redistribution of power from the individual to the State.”

Excellent! Wealth re-distribution is a ploy sold to the masses to indenture them further, not to uplift the poor.

The individual existed before the State.The State was created by Individuals.Therefore, the Individual is Supreme over the State.

Exactly!!

Suberb quote, but don't expect a democrat to listen, buying votes with someone elses money is their stock in trade. They are no longer an American party. The individual is only supreme over the state only if the individual is supreme over himself, i.e. responsible for himself. Today we are a nation of willing dependents and wards of the state, not its master.

As someone who grew up in a home with a full time working father and part time working mother and yet was still on food stamps and welfare, attended an Ivy League school on government grants and loans, and who now gladly pays very substantial taxes to both the state and federal governments, I can personally say "hog wash". King George W is the thing to fear, not taxes or social programs.

The quote sums up one precept of Marx's intent to dissolve freedom. As for A from Reston, the slave wants everyone to be a slave; giving to the gun toting thief willingly, rather than reluctantly, has no honor, moral value, or benefit to society, its still theft.

Well done Reston - Mike where is you compassion? Look, we are all on the same team and in the same cave; separation of our dream is what they want - the far right is going further to the right, the far left the same. How about stopping all this nonsense and just agree to sit down and discuss over a nice glass of wine. Because if you don't, what happens is a lot of people get killed, and in the end you will have meet making a full circle anyway. Redistribution to the individual can only sensibly be achieved by the state. Leave it up to individuals and it will be the beginning of our demised as a civilized nation.

Reston, where do you think "W" gets his money? Taxpayers! I would not choose to pay for grants that help pay your way to an Ivy League education. I could have used that money myself since I paid my own way thru a state university by working. The government doesn't owe you an education, food stamps nor welfare. Sarasota, I alone should be able to choose who to support with my money, but the government takes, wastes and give my taxes to people and causes I do not care to help. I don't care to give freedom to Iraq, if they want it, let them fight for it. I don't care to give those on welfare money to buy a new SUV, while I can only afford a 10 year old car. A welfare state is a socialist concept and we live in a Republic where each individual was once free to choose how to spend his own money. Now half the fruits of my labor are stolen from me to support whatever the government chooses. I have no say.

Robert, what planet do you live on. I have paid for my own way down to New Orleans at least once a month since Katrina hit to help in the clean-up and rebuild, I work in and donate to various charities, help build homes +. Government isn't there and redistribution (if it were possible and not a just mere attempt at immorality) is a myth that will not occur by or through government.

This quote is a perfect description of the "stimulus plan". Komrad Robert, Sarasota, you sound a great deal like Komrad Waffler, maybe you two were separated at birth.

Robert -- You are a thief.

What far right. I never knew anyone from the far right. The only far right I have heard of is anyone that does not agree with the far left. As far as setting down to talk, you would need to have people that are rational to get any results. When you talk of limited government you are attacking the religion of the left. There is no way to reason with someone while attacking their religion. A rating less than 5 stars denotes ignorance.

Hits the nail on the head - can be transliterated to read "...as we imagined, are the beginnings of socialism."

Robert Craige you have a point and as for the wine a good cab from Napa would do. The redistribution of wealth has been in existence from time immemorial (of civilized nations) - what is it with you guys? Are your heads in the sand? We have 120 million on government health plans - many of which can well afford otherwise. Robert is right, leave it up to you guys and chaos would ensue.

There is only one place that wealth gets its' money and that is from the poor or at least from those who are poorer than themselves. Just like the barons and earls of yore, money flows up. A healthy and prosperous peasantry insures a healthy and prosperous up side to the upper class. Mexico had land reform, Russia tried to improve the lives of serfs etcetera. If you consider group action of the poor to obtain a better life or better deal as "the state" so be it. The state can be a captive of the the wealthy, the middle class, or the poor.

There is only one place that the poor gets its' money and that is from the wealthy or at least from those who are richer than themselves. Just like the surfs of yore, money flows down. A healthy and prosperous upper class insures a more prosperous lower class. Mexico had land reform. (So what) Russia only improved the lives of the ruling class. The group action of the poor to rob the rich though government intervention is the current modus aperandi. The current state is captive of the elitist blue bloods that think that wealth is acquired not earned.

Live a life that increases your health, wealth, and quality of life. Your vote is useless as their are peple in our society who know how to be enormously wealthy, and politicians who know how to keep getting re-elected. So take care of yourself , family and friends.

WHAT PLANET DID WAFFLER COME FROM? I have never seen the poor feed the poor or the poor to EARN money from the poor. When the affluent spend money that translates to someone POOR being able to WORK and EARN money for them to get out of their "poor" situation and hopefully lead to a better life. Remember, no work-no pay-stay poor.

Waffler is either putting us all on are he is truly nuts. How on earth can people get rich by stealing from the poor ? If you are planning on stealing I think you'd steal from someone who had something worth stealing. Bill Gates didn't get to be wealthy by stealing from any poor person but he has created thousands of jobs so that people won't be poor. Komrad Waffler is truly insane .

Working FTM....Waffler is generally unbalanced. He has some lucid moments, but not many. He doesn't get that industry provides for those that want to work...welfare provides for those that don't and EVERYBODY else pays for the welfare class.

A dog chasing its own tail. Until socialism is removed, and all rights under our Declaration are returned to the Sovereign individual, property rights, without taxation or the exaction of labor, at the top to be considered. Undue tribute will be demanded at the point of a gun. State and Fed, in concert. Poor is miss-direction of understanding. Who measures quality of life. The individual or the State at large. Slavery whether rich or lacking breeds contempt on both sides. It is the third party in the room ( corrupt banking practice ) who inflects stress. If one chooses to live in a city, that is their choice. Beware. It only gets worse over time, when all pay perpetual rent of hearth and home. The State inherits All.

Structural and Moral integrity are as one !

The redistribution of wealth orchestrated
by cynical powermongers in the name of
"compassion", is an utter burlesque of authentic compassion inspired, actually sacrificial, charitable giving.

Charity, in its most sublime exemplification, ennobles both the giver and the recipient.

Statist's pallid, paltry, pharisaical, rendering of "charity", in practice, is a signal contributory factor in the West's horrific, ongoing, moral and sociocultural declension.

NATURE HAS ITS COURSE. NO DOUBT. As one comes in with nothing , you leave with nothing. No exchange. So to prepare for the Unseen, is the guide of Nature. A simple lesson, preparation.
parasites, bacteria, viruses. Many creatures, in the world, some have a per-disposition to inherent quality. We can be a little more pointed than that, Red Hill. But well said. It is Not the West, but the East that muddies the Water !!

God Declares his PROMISE , From Generation to Generation is His Salvation, it allows for correction. Who was at the Helm ! Changing Course, says the Pilot ! Our Ship of State has a Sure Keel, well of Ballast !! Able to Right itself in ANY STORM.
Semper Fi. Point the finger don't be shy. There is One thing, which will approach the Beast. only one, glittering it is. It is not [ in ] word, but in POWER. funny how God's nature works. A glass of wine, far beyond that, for some. There approaches an Army, nothing on this planet will stop. Best to prepare, Now. Hast thou faith, have it to thyself before God. which one, is the question for most.