“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”

Not according to the "Political Correctness" crowd.

Yes, and we need a lot more of that... where are those with courage that can stand alone amidst a sea of rascals.

Absolute, true... Like the following statement, for example, would not be allowed in a society that has no Liberty: "Unless you repent and trust in Y'Shua alone to graciously and mercifully save you from your right punishment of Hell for the lies, stealing and lusting you have committed, among all your other sins, then you will perish in the flames of Hell forever." That may not be what you want to hear but such a comment is still our freedom to say to you in a liberal society. And that would be the correct use of the term "liberal." Patrick@OnlyJesusSaves.com

Sadly the majority of us know how bad things have gotten. But telling people in which ways and by what system their rights and money are disappearing will only earn you scorn. No one wants to know about the elephant in the room. But reality is coming to see us all soon....

Incuding telling lies and scandals etcetera. We as individuals must sort out the truth from the lies ourselves. Europeans have told me they are shocked about American advertising, for example, when a car dealer says something like "We are the best Ford dealer in America". In America we call that puffing or being a blowhard and it is legal. In Europe they tell me such practices are either frowned on or are illegal. In America we usually think "yeah right man, prove it" but they are still allowed their puffing, bragging or even lying. The biggest lie in America is "professional" wrestling. If they called it a show, a play or drama it would be truthful but they call it a fight and it is thus the biggest lie in America.

Indeed. LOL, Patrick! Just because your preaching may not be something others may want to hear doesn't make it true. ;-) "If there is a God who will damn his children forever, I would rather go to hell than to go to heaven and keep the society of such an infamous tyrant. I make my choice now. I despise that doctrine. It has covered the cheeks of this world with tears. It has polluted the hearts of children, and poisoned the imaginations of men. It has been a constant pain, a perpetual terror to every good man and woman and child. It has filled the good with horror and with fear; but it has had no effect upon the infamous and base. It has wrung the hearts of the tender, it has furrowed the cheeks of the good. This doctrine never should be preached again. What right have you, sir, Mr. clergyman, you, minister of the gospel to stand at the portals of the tomb, at the vestibule of eternity, and fill the future with horror and with fear? I do not believe this doctrine, neither do you. If you did, you could not sleep one moment. Any man who believes it, and has within his breast a decent, throbbing heart, will go insane. A man who believes that doctrine and does not go insane has the heart of a snake and the conscience of a hyena." - Robert Ingersoll (and I agree wholeheartedly -- and I am no liberal, ;-)

They have admitted it is just a show and not a sport Waffler. Even so I do share your disgust for Pro wrestling. Real wrestling is a very good sport.

Archer, I agree wholeheartedly with RI too - have you listened to George Carlin on this topic.

As Archer demonstrates we also have the liberty not to listen.

Archer, well said. Deep down inside, I suspect that Patrick doesn't really believe this stuff, but was probably raised in a fundamentalist church as was I. Keeping the "flock" scared is a great control mechanism and is used well in these churches. How fundamentalists can enjoy life is a mystery if they really believe that most of their neighbors and some of their relatives will burn forever.

My comment is not due to not listening, it is a result of years of listening and questioning. I am well versed in Christian theology and scripture, and have many ministers within my family from all ends of the spectrum -- they don't get along, however, and even as a child I felt their apparent hypocrisy flew in the face of the words of Jesus (and just plain common sense). I've read the Bible from cover to cover (some parts many, many times). I have also studied Buddha sutras, Vedic scriptures (older than all of them), the Koran, Lao Tzu, Black Elk, and the classic philosophers throughout the ages -- as well as world history of 100s of religions/cultures/governments throughout time. What's wrong with that? A southern Baptist preacher once told me, "I don't have to try cocaine to know that it is bad for me." That was his reason for not reading anything but the Bible. (Talk about ignorant.) Thankfully I have allowed myself to say, "I don't know," and if some of these Bible-thumpers would admit that, too, I might embrace some of their interpretations. To me, the Golden Rule is still golden, Life is a grand mystery, and I am humbled by it. As an engineer and cosmologist, my field of study is apparently infinite, so it is easy to listen to other people's views about the universe, God, energy, life, 'the unknown.' Like Ingersoll said, if God can't handle that, well, LOL, it contradicts everything good in this world. Truth, Love, Courage -- they are the great Liberators from the bondage of lies, hatred, and fear (the tools of tyrants and fools). Once the mind has expanded, it cannot return to its original size. ;-)

Well said Archer - are you sure you are not a fellow Liberal? Read Russell's book "Why I am Not a Christian" it has a lot of thought provoking arguments. If you have studied Vedic scriptures you must have read the Upanishads? In those writings are the thoughts of today, especially the one on understanding. I was brought up in the church (C of E) and went to chapel every day but the hypocrisy got the better of me and I too turned away from the bible to other writings and beliefs. As Robert Ingersoll put it - I cannot believe in a God that makes his children suffer eternal damnation. And, I agree wholeheartedly with his last sentence "A man who believes that doctrine and does not go insane has the heart of a snake and the conscience of a hyena" I believe ONLY in one religion KINDNESS.

Freedom of speech is an unalienable element of liberty. Archer, I too have read much of the library and philosophy you have stated here. My legal background has given me the focus to study ancient Hebrew natural law. Through history, lawful descriptions and science, conclusions and outcomes repeat over and over again - truth. Truth is truth and does not vary, no matter what anyone says. Different religions and philosophies, in their specific cultures and focus have all added to the understanding of truth. Not relying on others beliefs or statements, my study has brought me to a knowledge of a living Father in Heaven that "IS" love.

Far beyond the private feelings and interpretations. The "truth" still stands as Divine. Perfectly Ordered is our Liberty, in word and number. This is assured to all mankind by the effectual working of our Creator, and Father, Lord God Almighty. A tri-cord of understanding, in total harmony with all the universe and beyond.

Robert, I do not claim to be a Christian, but I do endeavor to be christian. "God is Love" That was the phrase painted on the Christian Scientist church, and I have ever been empowered by it. Catholicism is fine for learning the history and ancient customs, but Christian Science is more like Buddhism. A Course in Miracles is another interesting approach to Christian teachings. But the Baptists and the Catholics will have none of it. ;-) The vedic Upanishads contain the earliest version of the 'do unto others' quote -- a millennia before the Hebrews.

As a Truth seeker, I can attest that what is true is true -- my ability to discern, to accept, and to speak the truth will determine my comprehension of the truth, whatever it may be. SO it looks like being truthful is all I can really do if I want to discover the truth ... how else? ;-)

I should add, being truthful with oneself is the primary task of a truth seeker.

Amen to that Mr E Archer.