“Ask the first man you meet what he means by defending freedom, and he'll tell you privately he means defending the standard of living.”

I don't know exactly how to rate this. The comment is very accurate. I don't know if to rate it for its accuracy or what's happened to the mind set of the Amerikan helot and serf. Liberty and freedom have been so well obscured in the dummying down of government schools, media industrial complex, etc. that the statist theocracy has reduced freedom to a form of materialism. China had a decades long experiment defining freedom as materialism and discovered it was an extremely good tool in controlling the masses.

Sounds like the reply a materialist might make. For that reason I'll give it a thumbs down.

I can define my freedom as being exactly that. If I am free to achieve excellence, thereby contributing to my standard of living and the community in which I live, then I must be free to do so. Or I could join hands with the socialists and we could skip and sing while wearing our burlap sacks and praise our owner's. All the while hoping they'll feed us again today...Nawww, think I'll go out again today and try and produce something of value instead.

You tell that to a starving child who is abused by his parents or a man who is being tortured, or a women whose husband beats her. Man is the curse of civilization - we took away Earths rightful protector - why do you think they call it "Mother Earth" Mike, let your heart rate it...

People might say that, but that is not really freedom.

Free to improve one's standard of living sounds like freedom to me.

RBE...We have laws against the kind of behaviour you describe. And an emotional evaluation of anything is useless at best, but doesn't amount to heartlessness.

If the standard of living means free speech, free worship, and the rest of the First Ten I agree. There is more to the standard of living than moola. Thus I give it a conditional five. To my knowledge the First Ten are not about money or excellence and material stuff.

Waffler, what have you done with the Waffler we've all come to know. - good comment

You are to dense to understand my enlightened mentality Messur Mike.

Waffler, lol, touche, I like it :-)

I think this speaks volumes and is fore-telling...we see this happening now...we just don't know if we will have an equivalent to Dachau.....

Is Waffler speaking regarding his intricate knowledge of the philosophy of the Enlightenment (Locke - Kant), or his own self-perceived illumination?

Great to see your are still politcally philosophising Logan. Waffler is speaking of his own self knowledge and mental analysis. He knows that his powers of observation and analysis are just as good as any man who has lived and while he learns from others he does not kowtow to Locke-Kant or any other, like some Chineese coolie or slave. As far as Locke who blew it several weeks ago when he showed his disrespect and disparagement and discrimination towards male youth.