Hat tip to J Carlton and E.Archer. J., you really did nail it with the Stockholm Syndrome line. A light went on bright and clear in my mind after that one. Well said.

Yes Waff, we already know you live in the land of democracy and your description of self rule, at least where it pertains to our Constitution makes me glad you don't write the history books. As J.B.Wuff said, and I hope I understand him correctly, divine right of the individual to rule himself was and is the experiment in progress and thus why our founders called it a great experiment to see if man could really rule over himself.

Right on Dan, 'Miracle On Mainstreet' is simplicity in action that the average intellect can understand if all the one reading it possesses is common sense. I second, third and fourth your assessment and give that book five stars along with the quote. Get it America, read it! -http://hiddenmysteries.com/xcart/product.php?productid=18144&cat=0&page=1

BINGO! Wake up America.

Waff, it all begins with the natural rights of the individual (the smallest minority there is) that he was born with innately and inalienably. Ignore this basic fact of life (truth) and you get the kind of corrupt government we got.

With these words,.."a war carried on, upon one side, for chattel slavery, and on the other for political slavery;.." Spooner nails the reasons for the war between the states and the only thing I add is that both sides were ultimately fighting for economic slavery to the same banking interests that were funding both sides directly and indirectly. This claim is a fact of history that can be verified if one takes the time to delve into the subject of the financing of both sides. Spooner was an absolutely brilliant man.

That is the beauty of the Constitution in its design to protect the weak (the minority of one) from the whims of those with superior strength that would enslave the one. In a world consisting of self governing individuals no government is needed and so the reason why the Constitution was set up as a system of administrations with the only ball the administrators were supposed to have their eyes on was the protection of the rights of the individual, the country (America) they lived in, and the processes to punish those who would, (because of the evil nature of some men) violate the individual's rights.

Self rule or rule by others over others is what this is all about. The Constitution was created with the idea of self rule in mind. Self rule in pure form is anarchy (total freedom) in respect, the choice is the individuals, or disrespect of the rights of others. The Constitution is actually an agreement between anarchists who chose to respect the rights of others and what this really was, was voluntary subjugation to moral law which defined the rights of the indivdual and the laws that punished for their violation. This is as basic of a form of civilization (self government) that an association of men can operate under and its stability rests on the individual free choice decision to responsibly play by its rules or not. This is the reason the Constitution is failing, there are more individuals in America who don't play by the rules (respecting the individual rights of everybody) anymore than there are that do. When the rules are followed freedom reigns and when they're not slavery does because some men are ruling over others rather than man ruling over himself. Spooner, like Bastiat, were very intelligent responsible men.

I know who Wayne is, I don't know him personally but I wonder if he knew the deeper meaning of what he said when he said it or if he was strictly referring to hockey. It's happening in other countries too J Carlton. It's pandemic and though the pun was intended I don't find myself laughing at it.

Government bureaucracies stay in business with the first line and so they never want you know about the other two which is why they control education.

Another way of saying teach him to be responsible for himself.

If the stone contains self evident truth that stands on its own, then it is good that it was thrown and it is good that he who is hit remembers forever....In other matters it's true one should be careful throwing stones.

Waff, Knowing we have our differences on what, who, why and how the "wasteland" (a good analogy I.M.O) came about, I, conditionally, agree with you and post these 2 quotes to show the extent of that agreement and why the agreement exists.------"After I asked him what he meant, he replied that freedom consisted of the unimpeded right to get rich, to use his ability, no matter what the cost to others, to win advancement." Norman Thomas.------"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." Benjamin Franklin. So you know where I think our agreement would end there is these 2.-----------"The purpose of government is for those who run it to plunder those who do not. Throughout history, governments have used violence, intimidation, coercion, and mass murder to enforce this system. But governments' first line of "defense" is always a blizzard of lies — about its own alleged benevolence, altruism, heroism, and greatness, along with equally big lies about the "evils" of the civil society..." Thomas J. DiLorenzo.------------"Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law,' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual." Thomas Jefferson. As you can see simple agreement is not always as simple as it sounds but I do get pleasure out of agreeing with you for a change.

Many don't enjoy freedom because they don't want to accept the personal responsibility that it requires to be free. Because of that they grudge what the responsible have acquired for themselves in their freedom and so seek to take it for their own without being accountable for how they take it. What will they do when there is no longer anything to take and they find themselves wanting?

I wish that the Creators' will be done and that he'd do it himself, leaving it up to us (mankind) has worked out miserably so far.

Agree Justin and it's also an apt description and judgement on those who sit on the fence leaning one way or the other waiting for the safest side to jump on. How's it go? "Those who try to save their life will lose it....."

Liberty consists in the ability to think and choose. I guess I'm just a stickler.

I agree J Carlton, makes me wonder what he was thinking when he wrote it.

Unfortunately J, maybe fortunately, as how would we learn lessons, the scum ARE in nature and the banks the product of those scum that use their freewill choice to control the freedom of others to create slaves for their benefit. The problem is man has never learned the lessons he is supposed to learn and that's mostly because he keeps falling for his own greedy nature the scum take advantage of, baiting that greed and sucking people into the world of the scum which ironically, by taking the bait, seals their own fate as slaves to the scum. In truth, people have no one to blame but themselves but try getting them to see that. The hardest thing for any individual to do is face himself and his own weaknesses especially when it is so easy to blame somebody else.

The real enemy is anyone or anything that seeks to control the free choice decision of anyone and the only laws that are just are those that punish those that use that free choice right to harm another in any way shape or form, right wing, left wing or anything in between included.

Winsmith, Tis true the monopoly money game that they play is the key to their power, and all the rest is really a smokescreen and unfortunately most can't see the fire for the smoke, but, the truth will come out. "The issue which has swept down the centuries and which will have to be fought sooner or later is the people versus the banks." -- Lord Acton

This ought to ruffle a few feathers. God is all that IS nature.

It is the eternal truth of this quote that always blows up in the face of those who would enslave.

Thank you both Mike and J. Carlton for your replies which I agree with both. Early 80's Mike? Same here and my argument was based on jurisdiction in a state civil matter though I must admit, I argued it incorrectly which knowledge gained after the fact and by hindsight I learned the errors of my way. In the end I won (another story in itself which I'll pass on telling) because they didn't get a dime of the judgement. Where there's a will there's a way. We do know the why of FEMA, don't we J. That's not a question, just a simple statement of fact.

Wow, quite the debate. All I can add is that it seems that whenever any idea or organization that has any good within it and catches the ear of enough, those with evil intent go into action and corrupt, confuse and destroy any good that could be accomplished and that's why man ultimately can only rely and act upon the good he can discover within his own heart and spirit because that is his only defense against the evil in the world.