Jim k------not so scary if you take it in stride but right on to the rest of it. They need laws to make criminals to justify more for their budgets. Nice little scam that violates freedom of choice like prohibition did and is the same method used on firearm rights. Make criminals out of the law abiding so they can convict them and hobble their 2nd Amendment rights for life by denying the right to bear arms ever again. Take the right and now new justification for bigger enforcement budgets. I wonder why, after a prohibition conviction, upon release from jail, they didn't take away the right to bear a bottle for life. Oh yes, I forgot. Firearms kill more in the U.S. than alcohol does or ever did, LoL. At least that's what anti-rights people would have you believe.

Anonymous Green OH-----Under natural law we are all born anarchists, it is the responsible self governed individual that respects the rights of others that has actually, by choice, controlled his anarchist tendencies which we all have at birth. What do you think parents spend there lives doing with their children? Taming them of those tendencies to disrespect the rights of others. You can be anarchic all you want if it doesn't interfere with the rights of another. The quote is great and it explains why when individuals agree on self evident common sense laws that exist and are known in spirit, consent is given through that spirit and since our Constitution protects those common sense truths individuals, because they ARE individuals, consent by silence and follow those laws by choice as it is to their benefit. They can also take away that consent and move elsewhere or do so by violating the rights of others and becoming criminals in the process. Morals are our common sense understanding between each other and it is moral to let others lead their lives as it is for them to let others do the same. Ever wonder why individual members of our society take no oath to uphold the Constitution like our servants do? This would violate the right of free choice that document protects as the natural law it is. Consent is a must in our voluntary agreement with our founders or the minority that created our self governing administrative structure.

Waff, Ditto to you, except the agree part.

E Archer---I agree. I am a good person at heart as long as nobody tries to force me to be good. By laws or any other means.

Waffler, Do you have the right to make me DO anything? Do I have the right to make you DO anything? Only if I give you the authority and the same goes for you. That's called consent. It is a natural law, and is thereby protected by our Constitution that contains the means of rendering punishment for breaking that law and others of the natural type. Now hear this clearly waff, at the same time our founders protected that law for us as individuals liable to punishment for breaking it, they did the same for the punishment of government actions doing what I can't do to you and you can't do to me. They don't, as you don't, have the power to make cannon fodder out of me. If I have no choice when it comes to that MOST, and I can't stress MOST enough, important matter regarding my right to life and all other rights that entails then I will defend and fight to my death for that right because what have I got to lose then ? I repeat, NO WHERE is ANY President given ANY constitutional authority to make cannon fodder out of me like you seem to think he has with you. I asked you to show me where that constituional authority is in the CONSTITUTION above the limits granted in that document and you lay the militia laws on me? There was no militia before my rights existed and because men make up laws to fight for their wars I certainly retain the right to say no, not without my consent. At the same time I gladly, willingly and with my consent join others in the fight to save my and our rights to life and all that entails with every means necessary in defending our Constitution and the laws of nature, which are key and essential to my survival, my family's and the families of those which I fight beside. You waff are a parasite on the lives of others and I'm not so sorry to say, because you REFUSE to see the truth, that nature will take you out in some form or fashion by your own ignorance of its authority. That's not a threat, that's not a warning, it is the honest simple truth of nature. Parasites who live off of other's works always demand more and more though human parasites don't demand in the beginning, they start social programs and make them sound philanthropic and when they don't work as they are known not to, the parasite demands more to make a failed system work. Exactly like our bailout attempt. Demanding more than the host can give is the fate of parasites for they have no control by that time over their wants and desires (read greed) so they think they have to stick with it (as lemmings do) and before they know it, over the cliff they've gone. Show me that constitutional authority that makes cannon fodder out of me waff, show me.

God created rights he handed to the indidvidual. When He did this did he do it by choice or was He out voted by the majority and he did it or was He going against the magority when He did it? ------------Anyway, He said here's my Laws you should follow for your own good, oh by the way they're naturally innate so you'll always be able to find them if you look for them or want to see them. It's your choice but since you can't read and there is no written copy of them I put them in your spirit so you can't lose them. Follow them wisely and remember the bad guy out there that I gave the same laws, powers, rights and directions on how to use them too as he is just as equal under these laws as you are. I say bad guy because in order for you to be individuals unto yourselves I gave you the unique ability to freely choose to obey these laws or not. That is My greatest gift to you, free choice, it keeps you from becoming robots that think and act the same in all situations. You see, I want you to be a free individual and not a slave. Follow my laws or not. There are no other laws out there to follow that will provide the freedom you have as an individual and if you follow them you can create heaven on earth, at least close to it, or hell on earth or close to it by not following them and making . The laws given and governing the individual are to do just that, govern yourself and hopefully with wisdom.

My error. My last post was in respnse to David Rosenthal's comment---"Most people are not willing to risk opposition to power."

E Archer----My vote is "an ignoramus with a stick up his ass." A deliberate plant would have a much more sophisticated approach and not be so obviously making a fool of himself.

Logan-----Thanks for the correction about the defintion of republic, that's what I get for taking Waffler at his word about anything. The possibility of honesty from Waffler fades with every post he writes.

I wasn't aware I was a member of an unorganized militia and the President was my commander in chief. I never game him my consent to enrol me if he did. I didn't give my consent to anyone to put me in that position and our founding fathers didn't do anything to put me in that position either. Your post is misleading again. Show me where our constitutional self government administrators are given the power to force me against my will by denying my freedom of choice to do anything. Show me that constitutional mandate that might make me cannon fodder. I know the Constitution pretty well and I've never read that. Show me.

Waffler-----If the word means back to the people, what are a people? Before they become any people, they are individuals first. Understanding natural law and our Constitution and its purpose, the word republic, in its use to describe America's republic, means back to the individual. Not the same thing as a democracy. Our republic is unique in history for that very reason. This republic is based on self government and not the government of any ruler or rulers other than the individual and he too is subject to the natural laws that are respected and protected by our Constitution. A nation of laws that no man is above. Why do you design your posts to mislead? Oh that's right, I forgot. You have your life staked on America not discovering the truth. At least your finacial life anyway. It's sad because this system will fall apart of its own weight and instability in nature as the cycles of war and peace in the past teach us. Just rulers create peace thus happiness, unjust rulers create war thus the sufferings attached. Is there anybody suffering in America today from the effects of war or what one considers unjust actions of anykind? Sounds like a good question for a poll.

That's because people fear people when it is themselves and their own inactions they should fear more and the consequences of doing nothing. They believe doing nothing will keep the wolves at bay which it will as long as the wolf is happy with the slaves performance. They just don't understand a life in total economic slavery which leads to total physical and mental slavery shy of the ball and chain, but even that is the wolf's option. Fear is as natural as any of our other emotions, faculties, abilities etc. i.e. rights. Like all of them, if we as individuals don't control our fear, somebody else will. It's called fear mongering. Fear is not knowing truth. Learning the truth of anything is the reason we are here and when a particular truth strikes fear in one's self causing the instinctual urge to run and hide or at least ignore it because it's not an immediate threat to life, the most common response is to do one or the other. This is an unwise move in 99% of situations causing fear depending on the circumstances faced. I believe the truth sets me free and that ANY truth uncovered, even if it scares the hell out of me leads to a greater truth and it is the faith I have that there is an ultimate truth where one will discover the whole truth and nothing, and I stress nothing at all, but the truth, that quells my fears as the more truth discovered the more convinced that ultimate truth is there waiting to be uncovered. I find the means to overcome fear in the next truth the scary one leads me to. In retrospect, it turns out, just as when we were children, once the truth of the bogeyman in the closet is KNOWN, the fear of it disappears. These people who seek to rule the world and in the process destroying America are just men. The fear they instill is based on lies and they are empowered by lies. When lies cover up truth fear in the form of anxiety appears because truth is not known. This can and does create other mental/physical problems with the ripple effect of both the lie being accepted and the truth covered up. The lies must be exposed first. Once that happens nature's laws will take their rightful course in the nature of man to survive successfully and peacefully together. Mankind really are in the majority good people at heart, it's just that the bad won't allow them to be good and a lot of them are being bad thinking they're being good. All from lack of knowledge or that which causes fear. Works for me! The ultimate one truth is there for us to find if we seek it. Everyone suffers from fears, everyone or most have the ability to control it like other emotions. One just needs to know what causes it. How the individual deals with it to control it is a method they should discover on their own, but I believe this method regarding the truth can work for anybody.

And you Waffler, to me, are the traitor. You totally ignore the intent of the forefathers and continue on with your perverted definitions and analysis of our form of government with not a bit of common sense behind what you say. I'm also willing to bet my life on who's going to hell too.

Waffler, who determined this distinction? You? It must've been because nothing in our Constitution and its intent say that.

Well said Mike.

Strong words there, I like 'em.

Saying those words today will at least get you on the list of potential domestic terrorists and once the law states that those words incite domestic terrorism the arrests will follow. There is nothing new under the sun.

Forgot, five stars this time for the caliber of the conversation the quote stirred up.

There ought to be a law written with a pen that puts to death those who practice tyranny over the rights of Americans through our form of self government. That's right, we have one, it's called treason.

Just another refugee, - "...in the end result we will have no one to blame but ourselves...." The rest of your post was great but this line points out the solution that MUST happen in order for any people to be as free as natural law says they can be. Individuals must realize that that regardless of thier particular action or inaction, these events, by the law of cause and effect, have consequences that are either good or bad for the individual and by the ripple effect these decisions affect others as well in a good or bad way. Freedom demands self responsibility from the individual. If one claims he is not, does not want, or simply avoids responsibility for himself, the ripple effect of nature on others still effects them in a good or bad way. In this case bad. If freedom demands responsibility of the individual as it does, then freedom of a nation of people demands the same responsible action from every single one of them who are able. As long as man depends on governments of men to nanny them (be responsible FOR them) in providing their needs, this individual irresponsible action that gives up natural rights for man determined privileges will lead to slavery every time. The result is the sum of your statement. The nature of man to lift up other men not as their equal, but as better or smarter than them allows for a place to put the blame when things don't go well for the individual. Just look at all out there who fanatically blame one or other of the parties for the mess in America or in lieu of a party membership blame politicians etc. in particular or in general. Because of natural law things can't go well under the circumstances our country exists in today. Until individuals make that first responsible decision to BE responsible for themselves and accept and deal with the fact they haven't BEEN responsible, they will never accept blame for the demise of freedom and thus the demise of America. Who's to blame? In agreement with you I say we all need to look in the mirror.

Freedom is a state of nature we are born with and unless it's defended by the individuals within a nation that enjoy its positive results with WORDS, its meaning will, as history proves, be changed by WORDS. If Americans have any chance left of turning things around without the bayonet, it will be with words and that chance will only exist as long as our written on paper Constitution still has some authority left in the fact that it is still there. Lose it and the bayonets are inevitable as the laws of nature etched into the heart and soul of man that cause him to desire freedom will not be ignored because they cannot be ignored. The desire to be free is as instinctual as the desire to eat and is just as essential to the survival of man. This is what nature dictates and to ignore it is fatal.

Agree with Mike. That third line, as he said, conveys the idea that freedom can be created by us but it also dangerously sets up the crowd that claims the Constitution is a living document that can be altered to fit the times. This idea implies that freedom, based on the natural rights of man, can be altered to fit what government policy considers what rights are and when, where, and how they can be exercised. This is an impossibility because nature will not change for the sake of what human nature wants and so the proof that it is human nature that must readapt to nature's laws instead of the other way around if we are to be free again thus bringing us back to the last line of the quote.

Great points Mike and I add - "The slave mentality you suffer under, and wish all did, is not a lawful state of existence in the de jure USA" - because it is not a natural state of existence and individual sovereignty is. Thus the main reason for the protection of natural law principles by writing and adopting our Constitution.

Agree with Mike but add a better way to say it would be Individual Liberty shall be the supreme law of the land and the Judges in every State shall be bound by the Constitution that establishes Individual liberty as the law of the land. I don't know, it just seems the quote doesn't convey the original intent like it should and I must at least question it in lieu of evidence that interests were at work to influence the writing of the Constitution in their favor rather than in the favor of individual liberty.

Not a mistake Mike. In the long run it's something everyone must do to correct things.