RBESRQ got it correct! It is noble to lead, to study and understand public policy issues and make difficult choices. Where would we be without these guys.

Unfair! Politicians are no more fickle or doublecrossing than are the constitutients or public opinion that they represent.

Since man has always had government then it would follow that man is by nature evil. I think Mencken is a bit short sighted in his observation. Aztecs, Mayans, Iroquois, Greeks etc. name a time when man was not evil. So give the fact that we must be evil let us accept our evil governments as a fact of life and move on.

What Harry means is that a democratic government has discussion, town meetings, contention and arguement. Like our Congress which people complain about simply for the fact that they are democratic and not efficient. Democracy may be the worst type of government but its better than all of the rest espcially those republcs some would have us bow down to.

Bureaus were created to end the spoils system of politics. Back in the late 1800's and earlier the winning Pres candidate throughout virually all Federal employees and put in his own people. Everyone was on the take. Bureaus were created to put career employees, untouchable employess in to those offices. People who complain about bureaucracy are those who just want to have their own way without regard to law or due process. Guys like Al Capone who had every politician in Chicago in his pocket but he could not touch Elliot Ness and Elliots bureaucracy.

Juggs the Fed does not print money, the Bureau of the Mint which is part of The Treasury does. The Fed just regulates banking..

No Juggs, you do not have it correct. If you are correct then why do I have tens of thousands of dollars in US Securities on which the government is paying me interest? The National Debt (and I repeat myself) is the sum total of my bonds as well as the bonds of all other bond holders, including citizens, foreign governments, the Social Securtiy Fund, Hwy Trust Fund etcetera. I repeat that it has nothing to do with The Federal Reserve. I will check but I think your information about banks getting rich off of the Fed is all wrong. The Fed is a banking service company of sorts, it is the banker for the banks. Everynation has a central bank, like the Bank of England, or the one in France and Germany. Any profit made by the Fed goes to the U.S, Treasury. Again Juggs google Bureau of The Public Debt, Federal Reserve System etcetera. There is plenty of info out there. We are not being played, this is not a ponzy scheme! We are doing it to ourselves by not educating ourselves to truth and by believing every lie that comes down the pike.

I knew Jefferson liked his logical straight laced Monticello environment but never read or heard him be so perversely inclined and prejudiced against cities. His chose of words calling them mobs, sores etcetera is unfortunate. Without the "mobs" in London, New York, Philadelphia, Paris etcetera just where in the hell does he think he would have sold his tobacco and enslaved his slaves all for profit. I love living in the country and the wilderness but am not so naive to think everyone can do it and I would not want them to. Cities have been the cradle of civilzations for milleniums.

I guess Anon is one of those with his hand out for the government largesse all of the time. Anon remember "don't ask what government can do for you but ask what you can do for government" that may be self-government to the max. One thing we can do is pay off the National Debt.

As usual Archer makes no sense at least to me. You can find out all you want about the Public Debt by googling Bureau of the Public Debt. Basically 7 trillion is owed to peopel you and I, foreign governments, etc. the other 4 trillion is owed to other government agencies like Social Security, the Highway Trust Fund etcetera. The Federal Reserve has nothing to do with it. It is not an illusion it is not difficult just do your research.

A sense of humur is a wonderful thing. Knowing what funny is is a wonderful thing. It depends on what the definition of is is and that is funny. Bashing and laughing at Congress like a bunch of idiots is not funny. It is sad very sad indeed and most shallow and perverse. I may be a bit earnest but I find many Jim, Carlton, Mike and others to be just a little bit to hip. I'll take earnestness to hipness every day. I am earnest because I believe in what I say and write.

Okay maybe fun stuff, but totally unuseful to intelligent and serious debate. And maybe even hurtful. Neat insight Anon "self government = government that governs the most governs the best". It is time we had self-government in this country that starts us looking at ourselves rather than ridculously blaming everything on others (congress) and start indiviually and collectively paying our honest debts, National Debt etcetera.

This is the nature of all things, not just government but our own lives are constant adjustments to changing situations. Engineering seldom develops a perfect result but makes many iterations from prototype, to first completion, and then the improved model. To expect some type of set in stone results from Congress or Law is silliness. Life isn't like that.

Juggs and Carlton are on the right track or at least they are talking about paying off our legal debts "to ourselves". It really is refreshing even though they are somewhat of different opinions. Now money is only good for one thing, spending. Their is enough wealth in this our country to do anything we wish to do. Drive Rolls Royces and live in 10,000 square foot homes while others live under cardboard shelters or drive hybrids and live in 2000 square foot homes and pay off our government debt, it is not a difficult choice, but one that must be made. Juggs the interest does not go to the Federal Reserve it goes as I said above to you and I if you own bonds and to every one else who does, the Chinese, Russians etcetera. YOU ALL MUST GET OVER THIS ERROR THAT IT GOES TO THE FEDERAL RESERVE.

You guys are ignoring the simpicity and truthfullness of the quote. You like any guy who fails to pay his bills and just keeps hemming and hawing rather than pay his bills. You have deadbeat mentalities and like most uneducated Americans reflect that mentality upon our government and elect deadbeat politicians.

The man did not know what he is talking about. Follow the money! To whom is the interest on the debt paid. I know I get my share because part of my pension fund is in US Treasuries, I know the Chineese, Russians, Japanese etcetera all get their share and yes since the General Fund owes the Socail Security Fund close to 2 trillion dollars, Social Security gets its share. Thus Patman's broadside would is patently false. The debt is owed to all of us. Paying off the debt would simply be a transfer payment for the super rich who own billions of dollars and bonds and collect interest thereon. Increasing taxes and buying back their bonds is what needs to be done. The lack of courageous and honest leaders is what has been the problem. Calling people who have the courage to state truth is not going to accomplish our goals.

Absolutley correct. Guys like Reagan and the Bushies ran for election telling us they would cut our taxes. They had no nerve and no morals. They then went and ran us into deficit no mans land. When will the American people become honest at least with themselves. This inherent dishonesty is the greatest enemy we face.

If I lend you $100 dollars, I will have you sign a note. I have given up 100 currency and you have promised to pay it back. My cash is down my receivables are up. Now if I don't have the cash I can borrow it from another guy, I would then have a debt owing to the other guy and a debt owing to me from you. Substitute me, you and the other guy for banks, federal reserve etcetar there ain't no difference. I assume all the folk who fall for this drivel have never had a lick of bookkeeping or accounting but who needs it this simple crap and you can't get it.

The correct judgement of money should not be what it looks like but what does it do. I get the goods and services I need with it, that is all I care about. Zeitgeist the debt was coming down under Clinton. Bush blew the lid off of the thing. There is more than enough money and wealth in this country to pay the thing off. What we lack is politcal will. The debt is nothng more than the summation of the serial numbered bonds and tha accumulated interest thereon. A button is punched everyday in the Bureau of Public Debt and the figure is computed. That is real money that is owed to Russia, China, and to everyone else including many individuals inclucing myself. The fact that the US does not collect enough taxes or reduce expenses in order to live without debt is the problem.

What a lousy quote! This dimwitted structured sentence says NOTHING, no wonder Mike fell for it. Lets analyse it. "Banks lend by creating credit" could be reverse by saying "banks create credit by lending". Lending and credit are one and the same thing, so this phrase is meaningless. "They create the means (lending) out of nothing (credit)" I guess is what this clown is trying to say. It is BS. When a bank lends they reduce their Cash on Hand (credit cash) and increase Loans To Customers (debit). If they do not have enough cash on hand they may borrow the cash from The Fed in which case they would increase a liabilty Loans From Fed (credit) and an asset Loans To Customers (debit). No stars for nothing especially accuracy, it is a total flop and a disservice for liberty-tree to print such drivel. And no wonder Mike falls for such garbage every day.

All of the quotes are true today. Should give some pause to those who can not read something by Lenin without pointing him out as a lone ogre. He told some truth also. Now banking and capitalism are both good things if they work to fairly and justly house, feed, and clothe people. I do not believe that they are sacred but must be judged on how well they perfom in satisfying real needs of people and their society or civilzation.

Good observation Juggs and comments. The peaceful manner referred to here would mean that our guns are in no way guaranteed to us for the purpose of taking on or even defending ourselves from government. The government(s) local, state, and federal are in fact the peace officers. Some and NRA seem to preach the use of guns against government or peace offficers. That is wrong headed thinking to the Nth degree. It seems impossible to stop there stupidity.

In addition each and all of the colonies were ruled by the same King and Parliament in London it was therefor somewhat natural for them to choose 13 years after freedom from London to espouse themselves or chain themselves (as some would have it) to another central government even if of their own choosing. Those who think that secession and this nationality thing is something else are just doing wishful thinking because they don't like the current or recent Washington scene.

Where did you get that info RBESRQ. As we know at least in this country language is not legislated but evolves. The language of the overwhelming majoirity of the colonists was English. The Virginia, Massachusetts, South Carolina, Georgia and Pennsylvania residents all had their ancestry and nationality from England. To be speak of these colonists as separate nations is a real reach and I believe an error in de Tocqueville's perception.

de Tocqueville is wrong in my view. The states did not have separate nationalities. First of all they were only 13 years removed from being colonies of England and most folk considered themselves of English nationality. Of course their were the other various European immigrants groups but by and large the folk were English spoke English. I think he is totally off base to say that they were distinct nationalities. The separate colonies found their nationality when they realized that they were Americans and Continentals not mere regionalists.