“It is a strange desire to seek power and to lose liberty, or to seek power over others and to lose power over a man's self.”

For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

We lost our power when we allowed God into the bedroom. Critical thinking became obsolete when we gave over our self to the God delusion.

Robert, your prejudicial rhetoric is as ugly, if not uglier than those you choose to demonize. Your delusional appointment of fault, especially using such a broad stroke as you do, is not only narrow beyond a legitimate measuring, and marginally correct at best - incorrect most generally, it also takes away all support (moral or otherwise) from your desired end result. I could substitute gay or atheist, with a few grammar alterations into your God rhetoric and be just as inaccurate as your rantings.

RBESRQ.- Personally, I found power when I allowed God into my life. As to your idea that "Critical thinking became obsolete when we gave over our self to the God delusion" I can't understand at all because again, critical thinking became easier when I gave of myself to His critical thinking.

Mike - I second your statement to Robert. His juvenile ugly statements are nothing but divisive. Should we also liken all Atheists to the Atheists' Hitler and Stalin?

It appears obvious that the British, progressive liberal, gay, atheist RBESRQ does not appreciate the persecution he has likely grown up with. Thanks to religious zealots, gays have been persecuted in God's name, so naturally, he was told that God disapproves of his very nature. Being a man of integrity, RBE has stood up for his view and opinions. It should be noted, however, it was not God that was put in the bedroom, it was MAN.

Kings have been laying claim to their subjects since the beginning, and a license is required for two of the kings subjects to marry -- in other words, they needed the king's permission. It was also the king's right to lay with the new bride before even the husband. Customarily, we have kept the tradition, mainly as it is a State business -- remember that it wasn't that long ago that Church and State were one. As well, the Church has long declared extra-marital sex as sinful -- mainly because it skirts the authority of the Church.

The history of busy-bodies and do-gooders includes minding other people's business -- and nothing seems to be out of their 'jurisdiction.'

RBE's conundrum is that he wants the benefits of the State/Church without agreeing to their terms. He doesn't need a 'license' to marry a man -- or a woman for that matter. RBE is all for compelled taxation of the 'rich' but adamantly against being compelled to observe Church/State dictates.

I for one do not need permission to marry -- I also do not want anything from Church or State other than to respect my liberty.

Seeking not power, but strength is the necessity to gain liberty, all the while searching for command over yourself.