“The holier-than-thou activists who blame the population for not spending more money on their personal crusades are worse than aggravating. They encourage the repudiation of personal responsibility by spreading the lie that support of a government program fulfills individual moral duty.”

Forced charity robs the giver of joy and the receiver of gratitude. This is one of the greatest evils of the welfare state. The one who gives from compulsion resents not only the hand that compels but the recipient as well. The one who receives the public largess considers it their right, and is therefore not grateful, for what we have of right is not a gift, and demands no gratitude from us.

Yep, I like it

A mixed message quote. In two sentences he seems to lump all actions by two or more interested people to be a repudiation of personal responsibility. The right of free association is fundamental to American social and political culture. Only my organizing do we get anything accomplished, whether it be a business enterpirse for profit or a non-profit philanthropic effort or for that matter a government effort. Government is after all nothing more than organization.

Again Waffler misses the whole point, but this is about par for his course. The quote describes perfectly the environmental movement, those wackos in the Sierra Club and others of their ilk. And "support of a government program" is usually support of a big spending program that hardly ever benefits anyone except the bureaucrats.

Jim, you must have your eyes and ears closed to the recent and biggest social program of all time is - taking place now by bailing out the banks, giving oil companies big tax beaks and by the Fed laying down and rolling over - yes, we have a social program but its for the rich and let the poor remain poor and the disfranchised remain disenfranchised, and the those unable to care for them selves just throw to the dogs... O yes Jim, what a wonderful ideology. Waffler, you did well... take no notice of these neocons. Yes, we socialize our losses and privatize our profits - typical... George Carlin who died over the weekend said it best "We are not members of the club"

Thanks Robert for the support. Jim always thinks the point is just one way, and that is his way. If there is not the ability to mull over, digest and discuss this stuff why don't we just elect a right wing fascist no dissent dictatorship and have done with it.

You now what? If the government actually had money to pay for all these 'bright' ideas for taking care of us, Robert and Waffler's arguments might have a bit more merit. I do believe that even without government programs, people do contribute to those in need. Private charity is still the best facility for honest giving and true compassion. But, in fact, the government has no money -- it is in fact completely bankrupt and in receivership to the Fed. Our government is allowed to wage war, pay farmers to not grow crops, pay for over-priced medical services, build huge standing armies of 'law enforcement,' foment a police state, etc. instead of creating all these great programs the private sector would indeed do -- and does dispite the hurdles to penalize them. It is just like a family -- when the family earnings are prosperous, then members of the family may get more of the things they need and desire. But when the family is not prosperous and loads themselves up with debt that THEIR CHILDREN must pay, they are well on their way to slavery/prison. When government in fact stands in the way of private prosperity and takes from one hand to give to another (while keeping a significant percentage themselves) they guarantee the permanent dependency of a significant portion of the populace. It also creates a pervading consciousness of irresponsibility. Our political leaders are now voted into office based on what 'entitlements' they will grant to their supporters -- nothing less than "voting for money." It is not nor should it ever have become the business of government to regulate personal income and have no limits themselves as to what they can borrow/spend.

If you want to help someone the best thing you can do is get the government out of it. No matter how much money the government throws at a social program it will only make the situation worse that much faster. Government programs are not meant to help any one but the politicians that are buying votes with them. Best quote in a while. Hits the nail on the head.

The reason for these groups and government is because of the lack of INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY! If you had ever spent three weeks in a national forest as I have and picked up 21 five gallon buckets full of beer, sardine, and vienna sausage cans on each day of your morning walk you would have some understanding of how much of this vaunted individual responsibility exists. This is part of the refuse of decades of hunters abuse. It just may be that it was I who was the responsible one and the beer cans represented the actions of the individually irresponsible homo sapien pigs. But being ever optimistic I will stick with the groups and government to educate or aprehend and incarcerate these folks until they get it, only if because I can think of no other choice.

In a society where the individual is responsible for the maintenance of that society, everyone needs to be educated how to fulfil that responsibility. How much more so is this true in America. However we have fallen way short if this responsibility. Our schools, government, churches, and parents, in general tell you how special you are, and what you deserve, but not what you owe to your fellow man and society. If all that we care about is ourselves, then there will not be a future to care about. The bottom line is that the true fulfilment of morality is purely, showing respect for ALL THINGS, AND ALL BEINGS! This is the whole obligation of man.

Sounds good, Ken. Waffler, contrary to the collectivist belief, the reason for government is not because of a lack of individual responsibility. American government in particular is instituted by those sovereign individuals to protect and defend individual sovereign rights from all enemies foreign and domestic -- in particular 'groups' (i.e. corporations) who pool their resources in hopes of using their collective might to dictate policy (i.e. might makes right). When Americans are brought up to understand their rights and respective responsibilities just as a monarch is educated about his sovereignty, we will stop placing blame on others for the condition and quality of our lives. Unfortunately, our government has been taken over by those who wish to indenture us forever. SO we are taught that we are perpetual 'irresponsible' brats that need to be corralled and yoked by church and state. We are constantly bombarded with the poison that we cannot be trusted to govern ourselves and that our government was instituted to take care of us from cradle to grave. Waffler never ceases to cowardly yield his power to the 'moral majority' and expects the rest of us to follow suit. GO live on a commune if you like all this all for one and one for all stuff -- there are many good ones here in the USA. It is when we ALL must join 'or else' that good intentions go bad. Compelling behavior is a natural destroyer of morality in a people because forced labor is immoral and a slave requires no morals and will thus never have need of them. A moral slave is one who refuses to obey his 'master.'

You never get it or listen Archer. In the case of my own experience I was the "moral minority". The trashers of the national forest were the "immoral majority" or the "irresponsible individuals". The government and concerned groups are the "moral minority" trying to bring some sense to the irresponsible ones.

You had a point until you started deciding who it was that did the trashing of the forest Waffler. There was a picture of the aftermath of Earth day celebration in New York a few years back. The picture showed a sea of empty trash cans surrounded by land that would be green if you could see through all the trash that your moral minority threw all over it. The same year there was the Dan’s bake sale in Fort Collins Colorado. No trash. No damage other than one flower pot kicked over by a policeman’s horse. The event was peaceful and enjoyable. Not like the nut case gatherings that the leftists congregate at. You will find that it is the conservative that promotes personal responsibility by living it. The liberal thinks that preaching is enough.

That is y far the most one sided blinded statement i heard all day! who are you even talking about?? 99% of activists give things away for free! they just want you to listen to there ideas which are FREE. and then maybe tell someone else or hang up a flier for them which is FREE! You sir are a joke... how did you get your job?? an overpriced degree? at a school filled with people as blind as you? side note: I think USA today is a piece of crap, owned by some guy in canada who who owns a butt load of other media outlets.. and has NO ONES interest at heart but HIMSELF and his rich friends... (no loyalty to any country or people) they print what they want you to see, and make you feel how they want... Government = bad in case you dont know... true, you need some basic laws and organization, to save you from deceptive people like the Rockefeller's who coincidentally now have power and money to pass laws to STOP you from doing what they did to get so powerful... kind of ironic and hypocritical. Government programs dont work, because they dont have to. there is no competition, if its not a good thing where can you go besides another country??? THAT IS THE WHOLE IDEA you will have no choice but to go to them and give them money for bad service NO MATTER WHAT IT IS... there is no check and balances, why do a good job when they can do half the job and still get paid?? after all there is no where else to turn.. and thus the horrible monopoly unfolds...

sorry for the double post but my original message was missing a "B" in the 1st sentence. However the message is the same. Patrick Cox, That is by far the most one sided blinded statement i heard all day! who are you even talking about?? 99% of activists give things away for free! they just want you to listen to there ideas which are FREE, and then maybe tell someone else or hang up a flier for them which is FREE! You sir are a joke... how did you get your job?? an overpriced degree? at a school filled with people as blind as you? side note: I think USA today is a piece of crap, and IS owned by some guy in canada who owns a butt load of other media outlets.. (look it up people) and has NO ONES interest at heart but HIMSELF and his rich friends... (no loyalty to any country or people) they print what they want you to see, and make you feel how they want... Government = bad in case you dont know... true, you need some basic laws and organization, to save you from deceptive people like the Rockefeller's who coincidentally now have power and money to pass laws to STOP you from doing what they did to get so powerful... kind of ironic and hypocritical. Government programs dont work, because they dont have to! there is no competition, if its not a good program or place where can you go besides another country if you don like it??? THAT IS THE WHOLE IDEA you will have no choice but to go to them and give their people your money for bad service NO MATTER WHAT IT IS... there is no check and balances, why do a good job when they can do a bad job and still get paid?? after all there is no where else to turn.. and thus the horrible monopoly unfolds...

The true social activist can envision and observe the interconnectness of the interest of the community as well as their own and performs accordingly.