Eureka! A truth!

Has there ever been a finer definition?

I think you are all drinking something and I resent being left out of the party.

Hmmm...men in bodies, huh? (Well, I read a couple of his stories and found his phraseology difficult to follow.) But the idea expressed here seems valid enough. Where, though, do we place those positive limitations? (Men in whose bodies?) Any man must agree to limit himself, apart from any conventions. Otherwise, nothing will improve.

Not forever, George.

It is surprising that Russell could not distinguish between what one thinks and what one says.

He forgot to mention the heavy-handed imposition of values, the insidious monitoring of ideas and expressions, the procrustean insistence on remaining within the limits of state-approved actions and adhering to state-mandated behaviors, which is totalitarianism in the world outside of the United States. Stand on a corner in Washington, DC and call for Bush to be impeached; no one will bother you, unless you get mugged for your wallet. Do the same in Cuba, calling for Castro to be ousted, and you WILL go to prison for several or 20 years. Prison in Cuba is a dangerous, dark, dank, dirty, and bleak place, where if you, as a political prisoner, survive for more than a couple of years, you are a tough guy.

The justice system is fraudulent. No doubt. I have also seen a few atrocities there. But I am not convinced that it is as bad here as it is in many other places. That is not to excuse it. I have also seen one man stand up successfully to entire institutions, with a little help from God and a couple of people of conscience, and come out alive. That is not democratic and not nice. But as yet our corruption is spotty, rather than universal. We could still change the system. And whether we could change it or not, I think we have an obligation to speak out openly against the corruption.

Archer: Since you are so concerned about freedom for Cuba, why don't you come with us when we go. We have already informed the Dept of Justice, Dept of Defense, and the White House by certified mail that we will do as you suggested, so they can't accuse us of conspiracy, since they have been invited to participate in the operation. Let me know. I'll introduce you to the commanders.

Archer: I said nothing about communication with the Cuban Government. Where did you get that? No opposition members are permitted in the Cuban regime, which i refuse to label a government, since there have never been elections. The quote says nothing about the USA. Where did you get that? The quote refers to totalitarian regimes, which so far we have not experienced in the USA. You are very confused.

Archer: I am in daily contact with Cuban opposition members, for the past several years. You do not have a clue as to what you think you believe.

But why would such a person, who is presumably well educated and focused on the issue of discussion, fail to mention the commonality of physical torture, imposed hunger, restriction of movement, physical slavery, and the more invasive and evil actions of the worst police states, which control 2 billion people today.

Archer: Take a trip to Cuba and Northe Korea, then apologize. Joe: I agree with you.

No debate required. The system of government is not the same as THE government. One is imperfect. The other is abominable.

...unless it abolishes the First and Second amendments. But there is little chance of that. Oh - I was forgetting that Bill Clinton wants to be the next UN secretary general. You know, the same Bill Clinton who stated to the press that Americans have too much freedom, and that they should be more restricted. (Don't believe me...you can find it in the articles of mainstream magazines.) The same Bill Clinton whose servants violated the Fourth Amendment in more than one case, with devastating consequences. (Read.) Bill Clinton, who wants to lead the UN effort to have the US fall under the authority of the UN International Court, the same UN on whose Human Rights Commission sit such illustrious genocidal regimes as that of Red China and CastroCuba. The same UN that wants you all to worship Gaia, give up your guns, and fall in step with the New World Disorder. Authoritative regimes survive quite well in the face of doubt, opposition, rebellion, and civil war. They do not go away easily.

Archer: Try keeping the debate centered on the quote, and not on the wandering musings of your own mind. Your argument has little to do with the quote.

Bull.

Confusion exists in the mind of anyone who cannot differentiate between freedom of thought or inquiry and freedom of action. You cannot do whatever you want to do, unless you are willing to pay the consequences for your misdeeds. Not any action you might like to carry out is acceptable. Get used to it.

The criminal forfeits some of his rights when he opts to break the law. To what degree he does so depends on several factors, but to some degree he does so in every case, where the law itself is not immoral.

The theory that life would improve without any restrictions on human liberty is disproven by the tendency to ignore those restrictions and ruin life.

Mike: Ask the Native Americans what they think of your comment. They might have a different historical perspective than yours. Don't get me wrong; I sympathize with your sentiment; it's just that I think we at some point tricked ourselves into believing we had established justice, but had only come to appreciate, to a degree, how a just society should operate. We, however, were confused. We saw, but we were not what we had seen. We confused vision with reality.

Are we forgetting what Utopia means? Or that it does not exist? Utopia could not exist. Paradise will. And uniformity will not be a requirement.

Well, someone will rule, so it might as well be an idealist. If the outward appearance is a hypocritical one, who is not somewhat hypocritical? If the idealism is simply a tool for conquest, not at all felt or advanced in the policy, then you could probably find enough rope to take care of the situation.

No matter how noble the original intentions, no matter who is in power, there will remain in existence opposition groups, some of which will remain opposed for the sake of gaining or regaining power, others of which will remain opposed due to disagreement on principles or values. There are legitimate rights and there are "rights" that are not rights. And there are rights that should, at a certain moment, be abridged due to prevailing circumstances, which if freely exercised might destroy the society that is the forum in which we enjoy any rights.

Under the current circumstances, thank God for the finite quality of earthly human life.