Poetic!

As long as the labor is voluntary ...

Well said, not cumbersome at all, logically and grammatically correct. But I suppose "You get out of it what you put into it" could also suffice. ;-)

The quote is right on, never mind the fallacy of judging words not by their content but by the supposed beliefs of the speaker (or political party, religion, sex, ethnicity, wealth, etc.)

All religions are 'goofy' to those who have a differing philosophy -- Einstein's theories were considered goofy at one point, too. The Mormons possess a strong work ethic, from what I have witnessed, and no more hypocritical in the practice of their beliefs than other sects, religious or secular. People's beliefs are their own -- how one 'practices' is where the rubber meets the road. The Amish come to mind -- now there is commitment to one's Christian ideals!

Indeed! Harvesting from my own garden those fruits I have been happily attending to is a great joy. The connection to Sun, Earth, and Nature is fulfilling all on its own -- to participate in harmony with creation is an honor.

Hear, hear! Great comments.

Sounds good at initial glance, but isn't 'dignity' inherent from a natural law perspective? Perhaps the word 'Honor' or 'Respect'?

Josiah Warren is saying that the necessity of having to labor for the fruits of those labors IS the check against excessive luxury. What is excessive? Consuming more fruits than those produced by one's own labors -- as history has shown for individuals and empires alike -- that is bankruptcy. The US government has been bankrupted several times, usually resulting in the revoking the charter of the central bank that brought them to such a fate. When allowed to prosper without 'debt-as-money' currency, the US again rose up out of the ashes. The US is currently still operating in bankruptcy under the receivership of the Federal Reserve (a consortium of private international banks). The Federal Reserve Bank's charter is renewable every 20 years. One year, the US military should seize the Federal Reserve buildings and offices, all employees and officers, and seize the assets of this counterfeiting operation and return them to the People.

To the quote, the British subject is the property (capital) of the Crown. His labors are the Crown's to command. He owes his life and allegiance to the Crown who is recognized as God's regent. All the land belongs to the Crown -- it is the King's land, the King's deer, and the King's Highway. Ultimate power and authority rests with the Crown and is delegated according to the Crown's wishes. This 'law' is the same in ALL the British Commonwealths around the word. The Queen is the head of state of them all!

My feeling is that Robert's complaint is that America will not embrace such an order, and his arguments consistently treat the common man as a helpless wretch, in need of the care of the state authorities. A common theme from the left is that the common people are poor and helpless -- 'victims' of capitalist society.

Robert, And how far back do we go to address the ambitions of the British monarchy? When did England become a peaceful nation only concerned with its own country? What happened in 1913 in the US? Who were/are the private owners of the Federal Reserve? Look to England, Germany, France in addition to US banks.

I think what you mean to say is that the US government lost all control once they allowed a foreign entity to provide the currency in exchange for all the gold the nation possessed and a law preventing its use as money from there on.

Robert, Americans are to blame for being deceived by their leaders and for not reclaiming their sovereignty. The Brit has never been responsible for himself, he is the subject of a Crown -- with good behavior earns privilege while the common man is simply a serf bound to the dictates of the Crown via His/Her government. (The Queen frequently refers to the Parliament as "my" government.)

Britain's genocidal history precedes the imperialism of the US military. I do not defend the unlawful actions of the US military, but the power-brokers in Britain continue their own imperialist policies, using the US as attack dogs. If you want to understand global power, you have to start looking at the central banks. The average American or Brit knows NOTHING about how the global power structure operates -- another reason why the vote of the common man will never be a solution.

Robert says "America has lost sight." Who is America? Sight of what? That capital is the fruit of labor? Generalities like this are 'dribble.' When you throw something out like that, what do you really expect anyone's response to be? 'Gee, thanks, Robert, your advice is really clear and inspiring.' Not bloody likely.

It demonstrates again a lack of responsibility and just placing general blame of Americans -- no distinction made, just all Americans. All have lost their way. This parallels the same religious bigotry you take such an understandable offense to. Preaching secular statism is just to promote the religion of power with man as god. For a person who does not believe in god, why do you support the creation of seats of power to be occupied by whomever manages to swindle their way to them? Demand less from government and more from yourself.

Absolutely. When I work, I get 'credit' for the labor. The credit is either in the form of capital or a token representing the credit. As long as the issuer of the token (i.e. money) can be trusted, buyers and sellers may use the money with security. Today, however, the words credit, trust, money, and security are used to refer to their polar opposites. Credit is debt, the issuance of money in accordance with the value of the products cannot be trusted, money is debt, and securities are speculative derivatives of capital. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!

Funny, Robert! Europe has already succumbed from using the same funny money system -- every monarchy in Europe became prey to the banking frauds known as central banks. The Euro replaced the other crashed/crashing currencies, but only after a premium to the Euro central bank.

Tell me where the US military is and you will find the British there, too. The same players are controlling the US as Europe -- the common people are but the fuel for their designs of holding the power of the world in their hands.

Robert, your rhetoric is exactly a parroting of the ruling class -- you have taken the bait, hook, line and sinker. The LIE is that others are responsible for the condition and quality of your life - particularly those with more power and capital than you. Never mind that after a lifetime of labor and trade a person has become prosperous -- does he not deserve the fruits of his own labors? The 'rich' are not the enemy, as those favoring the left so quickly proclaim. The enemy is the 'racket' - the very system Robert is trying to make more efficient. That's why they are frequently referred to as useful idiots.

Rather, why not start by taking responsibility for your life? Take a good long look at what you believe, what you have, what you can do, and make a plan of action. And if you happen to find other self-reliant people, you may associate with them and even make plans together by AGREEMENT. And as long as the agreements are kept, and the plans are workable, the project can be a success. (As long as the group does not try to force the terms of the agreement on those who do not agree.)

To automatically assume that the rich need to 'pay' you simply because they have it and you don't, is exactly how a criminal thinks! Prosecute theft -- don't legalize it. Taxing by force is THEFT. The leftist mindset is that of a thief.

So true. The degree to which a person is disconnected from the work of growing/raising food, the more risk of starvation. The land is settled by farmers, and their labor is the life-blood of the fruits of those labors. The food can be consumed or traded for other goods or labor. It all starts here. The agrarian is the silent steward of the people. Without the land and labor of the farmer (and of course the support of Nature), there is no food, and thus no commerce.

Well said, Ron!

Mike is on a roll today! Excellent point! Perhaps the quote in context would help a bit. I happily labor for myself because I have no desire to dictate the actions of another. After all, 2 heads are better than one -- why should one head do the thinking of 10 heads? All this talk about 'jobs,' we need more 'jobs' -- what kind of jobs? Jobs in which people agree to take orders in exchange for pay -- as long as they do what they are told to do, that is all that matters. This is a slave mentality. If these are the 'jobs' that are replacing industry and innovation, and if education is merely to prepare 'workers' for their place, do we really need these kind of jobs? What will be the result of training a nation of subservient workers?

With 95 million Americans without a 'job', what kind of transformation is occurring? I imagine there are plenty who are not waiting for orders and are using their brains to figure out what they can contribute in goods and services.

The shift in consciousness from being at the effect of life and being in charge of it is what will transform a country of serfs into a country of 'noble laborers' (Mike's phrase, but it says it all). ;-)

Mike, very well said!! Dignity and honor are the noble supports of the freeman. Our labor is our power. There is no capital without the labor of hunting, foraging, thinking, digging, building -- i.e. WORK. The American ideal, shared with not another single country (except maybe Switzerland), acknowledges that the labors of the individual 'belong' to the individual -- and that the individual is responsible for fulfilling his natural needs and accountable for his actions in doing so. With honor and dignity, people can live this way together, and their cups do runneth over. ;-)

Bob, the quote is referring to the 'ownership' of another's labor, not one's own labor. Servitude has taken on many socially acceptable forms -- that is, acceptable by those who benefit from such an arrangement. Debt slavery is the currently acceptable form -- mostly because the laboring classes do not understand how the system works.

Western civilization has a real opportunity to 'wake up' with all the 'education' and information we now have access to. Only those that willfully ignore the plain facts before them will retain their ignorance. But when the collective consciousness is such that large percentages of the people have learned how the covert system of money manipulation is a racket to centralize power into the hands of a few who keep us impoverished and at war with each other, it will start to change. This is a LONG racket that only a few have even been aware of over the last 400 years -- now this knowledge is becoming mainstream even though the mainstream media does its darnedest to keep the propaganda flowing, which is absolutely needed to prop up the illusion. But a daily dose of BS does not fulfill basic needs, and sooner or later, people easily recognize the crappola being broadcast to them and RESPOND with giving the propagandists the facts. In the process, a few more will learn why what they are told does not seem to jive with the reality.

Producers/manufacturers can 'loan' themselves money interest-free by issuing coupons for their services, like phone cards, for example. They are as good as money, right? Why? Because we can count on AT&T to deliver according to the terms of the coupon, and I have need of telephone services. But I could trade that phone card for items at the grocery store, if the grocer will accept the phone card as payment -- the grocer could then re-sell the card (give it as change even) or use it to pay his AT&T bill, which then completes the life cycle of that phone card. The 'money' was created, used to facilitate a few trades -- the more the better! -- and then is redeemed by the issuer. What if we pooled the phone cards of 20 different phone companies, and all the other coupons issued for products that are in demand, producers get 'financing' on-the-fly, and the buyers don't have to accept clipped coins that keep getting smaller after every transaction.

Utah may be headed in the right direction -- definitely, if we want our power back, it is going to have to be state by state -- and that means county by county until then. Local currencies issued by municipal governments could be issued in lieu of taking out bank loans -- those that wish to support county government services can choose to honor the notes and trade with them. No one can be forced to accept them instead of USD's. Several counties throughout the US and Canada have implemented local currencies for use in local businesses. Bitcoin is even being accepted for the payment of government services in some counties. It is happening!

It is positively criminal that those who have re-introduced gold and silver coinage for use as money have had their gold and silver seized and charged with counterfeiting because the Constitution says that only the federal government has the authority to mint gold and silver coin. But since the government has ceased to permit the actual USE of gold and silver coins for buying and selling, we are damned if we do and damned if we don't. The founders of the Liberty dollar have had their entire stock seized on trumped up counterfeiting charges. Most of the charges have been dropped, but individual holders of the Liberty coins have to prove their claim to them. The rest is still being held. Just goes to show how far we have come to realizing that we are but chattel, barely even serfs on our own land, paying for our servitude -- it's a nice sort of slavery for those that acquiesce quietly, but the 'troublemakers' are dealt with harshly as an example to the rest. But I do believe the hypocrisy and deception cannot last forever...

The mistake is to think the government can or will do anything about it -- it is not their problem, it is the source of immense power! The solution rests with the People! Always has. But an armed rebellion is the wrong way to go.

Money is merely a tool to facilitate trade. It is in the MARKETPLACE where the money is created by mutual agreement between all the buyers and sellers. They all agree to use a particular token that is issued to represent the product being sold. For example, Amazon is a marketplace. Amazon could issue tokens in exchange for sellers coupons for their products. Buyers are also sellers in that they trade their labors. Money is merely a certificate for something of value. The players in the market will determine my trustworthiness to deliver on the certificates I issue for my services/products. The issuer can agree to certify your promises based on what you have delivered previously in order to determine the level of risk. If you take a marketplace as big as Amazon, it may be possible to buy everything you need there. If I produce something I can sell on Amazon for which I may trade for other products and services on Amazon, then it is balanced. And here is the thing: if I do not produce enough product or services to trade for the things I need to survive and flourish in this life, I will die -- understood? I must produce! And the blessing of a free society would offer a marketplace where I can trade goods and services.

Gold and silver coins have been the traditional form of money since it is hard to counterfeit and is non-perishable. But a certificate for gold or silver is just as good -- IF the issuer is trustworthy. The punishment for debasing the coin of the USA is DEATH. (Don't worry, no one has been punished under this ever.)

What I am getting at is that like Bitcoin, the people can come up with their own forms of currency. All that is needed is a marketplace in which to trade in that currency. Cash registers should be outfitted to accept Euros, Canadian, and even gold and silver coins. In Guatemala, multiple currencies are accepted. Gradually we should phase out the use of US dollars so that when the currency does crash, the other trading avenues will already exist. Texas is building their own gold depository -- why can't a county do the same and issue 'gold cards' based on a Bitcoin-like security? You could use them just like a credit/debit card, and your gold is converted into the currency used for the transaction (USD, Euro, CAN). Then if/when the currency crashes, your bank balance will rise in proportion. It is time to take responsibility -- the government is not going to 'solve' this -- it is working perfectly 100% for them. Figure it out!

This is how you conquer a nation. Note, however, now that nearly all the nations on Earth are dependent upon this money system (debt-as-capital), it is merely a hot potato game -- somebody is going to get stuck. The job of the IMF/World Bank is to regulate the inevitable economic crashes this money system MUST produce in order to balance. The 'Asian Flu' crashed the yen, Canada's currency took a dive a couple decades back, Brazil, Europe -- that's why the Euro came in -- and China. The math cannot be faked, sooner or later the debts far exceed real capital. Eventually the currency becomes worthless. This happens over and over and over -- the US is in a perpetual state of bankruptcy, and every 20 years the bankers cull the herd of their capital. They then sell it back (on credit), and the process repeats. As long as we use interest-bearing debts as money, the more money you acquire, the more debts you are holding -- and we have little to no alternative. Anything we put our money in is taxed as property (if it has any significant value). Why? Because we haven't really purchased anything because we haven't traded for it with something of substance. These notes are supposed to be temporary and are to be substituted with the real thing eventually. So technically, we haven't fulfilled the debt obligation for the property we have in our possession. We are liable for the property, but we do not actually own it. We have an equitable-interest perhaps, but this is a commercial instrument and like everything else in the land of paper tigers, it is like a poker chip -- it is not real property held in allodium. Essentially, all the money and property of the world has been claimed, and there is no way to actually acquire full rights to one's property. So even the property we 'purchase' is still not ours and thus rent is due (taxes) to the money issuer as a condition of its use. It's a Monopoly game, and it is run by the banker -- in the end, all the pieces go back in the box...

Robert, I am confused -- who are you referring to as 'we' when you say 'we spend over a trillion' and then 'kill this grotesque war machine we call America' ? Either you are with 'us' or against 'us.' ;-) Aren't you a Brit who moved to the US for a while and now is 'somewhere is Europe'? You don't sound like an American. I agree that the US military has become an occupying force around the world -- but this is not America, there is a difference between America and its federal government.

The issue is the centralization of power -- Americans have almost no control over their servant government as the power of the coin has been taken over by the racketeers that now pull the strings in every country in the world -- except, mind you, the Arab nations still using the gold dinar. Funny how that fact hardly ever makes the news. The Arabs can't print up money like the West -- which makes it hard to fight wars against those that do.

But to give Robert some credit, Americans ought to know that the US is not held in very high esteem by those outside of the US. The military imperialism is more than obvious to everyone else except Americans living in a bubble. America is not loved as it once was because of what we have allowed our government to do -- we are certainly guilty by not enforcing the Constitutional rules our servant government must follow. Wars may not be waged without a declaration of war from the Congress, not the president. This has gone on TOO long. And Americans are paying a hefty price for our own lack of integrity, for it starts with the individual and emanates from there.

Now, how many wars have the British waged? How many are they waging now? They are right beside the US, so perhaps you might consider taking responsibility for your own country's imperialism (literally). I have never heard a 'progressive' say, "I am responsible for the condition and quality of my life." Only blame, blame, blame...

Mary, RBE is a British ex-pat in the States (I think he is posting as 'Robert, Somewhere in Europe' now). From what I have gathered from his posts, his view of liberty and personal responsibility is skewed by his monarchical conditioning. Like most who have been taught to remain subservient to authority, he doesn't have a problem with being a subject or a ward of the state. He is fine with the State providing permits, licenses, food, housing, and health care -- his complaint is the poor quality of social services that leave most wanting. I find most Brits do not have a concept of real liberty and the responsibility that goes with it. The idea that the individual is 'sovereign' over himself in every way is a foreign concept.

Gold certificates (formerly known as MONEY in the US) were issued for all the gold stored in Fort Knox. The real question then is where did all the gold certificates go? To the Federal Reserve in payment of the interest on T-Bills issued by the government. The government was supposed to guard Fort Knox as it contained the nations' gold backing of the currency. Robbing Fort Knox would be nearly impossible -- but establishing a scheme in which a central bank may trade fiat money for real gold certificates, that's just legalized robbery. Now, the government protects the Fed's gold in Fort Knox -- it is not even ours!