“Be assured that if this new provision [the 14th Amendment] be engrafted in the Constitution, it will, in time, change the entire structure and texture of our government, and sweep away all the guarantees of safety devised and provided by our patriotic Sires of the Revolution.”

Browning called it. From the 'Reconstruction Amendments' on, the tone and context of Constitutional Amendments changed forever. Since the southern states were defeated, membership in the Union was now forced. While the first 10 Amendments were added to make doubly clear what the government cannot do, the Amendments from 1866 on were about conferring more power to the federal government than was originally granted and extending federal jurisdiction over the States. Suspiciously, after nearly every amendment from the 13th on is a clause that says, "The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article." Of course, there is a question as to whether the 14th Amendment was even lawfully ratified -- but I will leave that debate to someone else. ;-)

It's been proven that the 14th amendment was never ratified. It's a fraud, just like the US government has been ever since the criminal, Lincoln, abused his office and committed treason against the American people. The Senator from Illinois was right, the only thing the 14th did was transfer the ownership of slaves from the private master to the state master. I hope you all enjoy your slavery.

Lincoln resolved Adams delemma as to whether the Union was a matter of heart or law. "We gather together on a great battlefield ......to determine whether a nation so conceived can long endure." Well it has and it will. Without union there would have been no Liberty. The start of union was when Virginia came to the moral and physical support of Massachusetts. Without colonial support Mass. would have been subjugated by the Brits and so would have each and every other one of the colonies. The colonies fairly quickly recognized that their safety lay in seeing things "continintally" rather than regionally.

E Archer and Dan in Wellington, a very nice town , are right on target.

It wasn't a matter of law, Waffler, it was a matter of force. Might does not make right, but history is written by the victors. Once again, Waffler bends his knee to the authority of force instead of free choice. The Union was formed by a voluntary association of like-minded freemen -- and it can't be kept any other way. How can you justify your divorce from your wife? According to your view, once she wanted to leave you, you had the right to force her to stay for the sake of the 'Union.' Lucky for her she got away. If you believe in democracy as you claim, then when the southern states' legislatures lawfully voted to secede, they should have been allowed to. It is crazy to think that the Union should be forced to prevent future wars with the separated states by in fact going to war with them! In truth the southern states did not 'leave the Union' -- they left Washington, D.C.. All the state constitutions were still in tact. The problem is what it has always been -- living up to our declarations of independence and liberty and justice for all. We still have a ways to go... (nice spelling, Waffler...)

For Lincoln lovers , read "Lincoln Unmasked" for the truth about Lincoln. "Llincoln Uber Alles" (Over All) is also a great book on Lincoln. As to the 14th Amendment, I say get rid of it and return to a pole tax like we had in Texas when I first voted. It's a great guard against all the riff raff voting for government handouts.. And make no mistake,this amnesty stuff that Komrad Obama is pushing is only a get out the vote for democrats campaign. He's desperate to get it passed before November.

It is the worst ammendent in the government's constitution. Uh, what happened to our constitution?

Here's a little more background: http://www.barefootsworld.net/14uncon.html

The 14th guaranteed that the Bill of Rights was appicable to the states also. Not only therefore were the Feds forbidden to interfere with Speech, Religion, Guns but the states and supposedle cities, and even individuals could be called to task for interfereing also. What is wrong with that? Any one and every one can write history and does as attested to above by Jim's reading suggestions. Obviously Archer is very unread. By way of proof and example, how many books have been written by the losers from the Confederate States of America, I ask you?

Since the southern states were defeated, senators and congressman from these states were appointed by Washington DC -- the citizens of these states had no choice. The 14th Amendment essentially declared that the sovereign citizens of the States were now federal citizens, subjects of the federal government. It can be argued that since the War Between the States, the US Constitution is in fact mute and without a lawful constituency. Obviously, what force and effect does the Constitution really have if the federal armies can be called upon to war against any person or state that demands that the Constitution be observed? There never had been a federal citizen before, and this was the way the federal government subjugated the American people further -- by declaring all Americans federal subjects and thus must obey the dictates of their federal masters. Rights were no longer inalienable, now the federal government will say what is and what will not be -- period, by force of arms and imprisonment. Lincoln did not free the slaves, we ALL became slaves to the federal. That is something would-be-patriots today ought to remember -- a revolution may be coming, but we better end up on the right side this time...

Obviously Archer lives with blinders on. In my post above I said and I repeat that the 14th made it imperative (okay under the force of the Feds) that states, cities and individuals must also adnered to the Constitution and to the First Ten Amendments and of course any to follow. We all believe I think that freedom of speech, religion etc is not a concept forced upon only the Feds, the President, the Congress, the courts. It is forced upon all of us. Before the 14th states did depirve individuals of these things. C'mon Archer, Jim and others get with it and start reading the posts and the quotes in depth.

Archer, well said. Waffler, you've said "we are the government" then later expressed that our (my and your) labors, delineated in dollars belongs, to them (-: them aren't we ;-). Which is it. Either the individual is a sovereign and the State his expression (the Federal being the expression of the States united) as the original intent was based on or, as the 14th Amendment, in application, comes down to, 'We The People' are slaves to an organic hegemony and the Constitution is void. Another example of the 14th Amendment's despotic expansion, where in the Constitution does it give the right of the Federal Government to define an immigrant legal or illegal. (naturalization is not immigration / naturalization is the authority to define how someone that is already in the U.S. may become a citizen - for purposes of voting, becoming president, etc.) The Constitution was set forth to limit the Federal Government, if it's not specifically in the Constitution, the government cannot do it. Under the 14th Amendment, the statist theocracy now determines the level or dimension of slave-hood for any and all within its venue of prowess.

Thanks, RBE, for the link. Very succint argument proving the federal usurpation of the sovereign American's rights. All paid with funny money and BLOOD. The devils clamor for the throne while the People watch helplessly, hypnotized by the magnitude of the deception and the immense power propping up an illusory world -- all paid with the lives, labors, and property of the People, perpetually in bondage now. A few Wafflers in this world are rewarded for their collusion, their cowardice, their ignorance, and false charity using other people's money -- all the while proclaiming 'Peace' ("why can't we all just get along?") and obedience ("just pay your taxes and shut up"). Just say NO to complicity! Say NO to limitless power for Washington! Say NO to Monopoly money in which the Banker also plays the game with nothing to lose. Wake up, straw man, for without the substance, you are but a shadow of the man you were born to be. ;-)

Robert, thanks from me too, great reference. Archer, again well said.

Mike if I used "them" I am sorry I really meant "WE". I think my analysis of the effect of the 14th is more nearly correct. It guarantees that the rights enumerated in the First Ten and any others in the Constitution will be upheld and not infringed upon not only by the Federal Government but any subdivision within its pruview or jurisdiction. My friend you do not think for a moment do you? that a state, city or an individual can close down the press do you and get away with it. The Constitution and its Amendments was not just written to control the Feds. That is just some radical right wing dogma you have latched on to. You do love latching on to your dogmas. No, the Constitution and its Bill of Rights describe how WE are going to live in this country. A true American in my view subscribes to these inalienable truths and upholds them for all. Archer failed to retract his statement "books are written by the victors" after I proved to him simply by quoting Jim above who said a book "Lincoln Unmasked" is a good read. Now I humbly and respectfull ask is that book written by a "Winner or Loser". Secondly I suggest that an intelligent person does not see the world or persons as victors and losers, an intelligent person treats both those imposters just the same. Read your Kipling, Archer and then keep on reading after that, read both "victors" and "losers" and maybe you will be become enlightened.

For Pete's sake, Waffler, you have repeated the same BS 3 times now. The 14th Amendment of the Constitution was not added because the States were not observing the Bill of Rights. Each state has its OWN constitution and all of them, too, have these provisions within them. Secondly, I am real tired of misinterpreting the context in which the Constitution is written -- it is not a rule book for the states or the people, it is a rule book for the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT as chartered by the States and the People. The Constitution delineates the power and authority of the government as written by We the People. We the People are the masters of the government, not the other way around. The Bill of Rights was added to make even clearer what the government MAY NOT DO, not to declare rights of the People. The rights of the people are inherent and inalienable -- no law or statute can abrogate them -- EVER! Not even with a vote. It is by our inherent rights that We the People can even form a government, and it is impossible for that servant government to then declare the powers by which the government was brought into being as subservient to their own dictates -- that is completely opposite of the republican form of government established by We the People. The fact remains that the 14th Amendment was added to the Constitution to abrogate the sovereignty of the States and the People, pure and simple and to extend indefinitely the federal jurisdiction across the nation. I do not need to retract a statement I have never made, Waffler. You call the sovereign Americans "losers" -- well, you are nothing but a carpet-bagger who says "y'all" for appearances and putting on an act. Such collusion with the oppressor is dishonorable and earns the title of 'traitor' in my book.

It is a rule book and a political philosophy for the Americna people. If the freedom enumderated in tfhe Ten Amendments are only safe from infringement by the Feds they are not safe at all. If your state or your city can infringe upon them without consequence what freedom do you reall have? No but Archer believes that are freedoms under the Constitution can be taken away or nullified by any other political unit. What a warped guy you are Archer! I agree to the WE the people discussion and WE the people say in the Constitution and throuhg the Constitution that the Freedoms enumerated will exist and be enforced throughout the nation.It is a rule book for a way of life that we call American.

Prophetic.
Kudos (and up votes) to Archer and Mike

Waffler: You ask "what freedom do we really have" if your state infringes on your God-given rights. You have the freedom to object within the state, to elect different (hopefully better) representatives, work to affect change of your state's Constitution via Amendment or, failing that...you have the freedom to "vote with your feet" and move to a place more in line with your beliefs and observant of your GOD given rights.
By the Federal Gov't usurping states' rights, even their right to be wrong, it gave itself the seeming power to GRANT rights to the people by applying their power as the Fed sees fit. We can see since how damaging that is.

Lincoln let " The Cat " in OUR room, it becomes more clear now as it should, that sympathizers with Rome saturate the Protestant Clergymen of America today. We the People have become nothing more than " America a province of Rome. " The rising of Rome once again, to fulfill its life span of 666 years. Prophetic indeed. To speak out on behalf of Liberty and Freedom today among the so called leading denominations, you find yourself belittled, looked down upon, called hypers, by the lofty Elite sitting in their ivory towers paying homage to their sick masters in Rome. The South shall rise again, has become, A Nation of True Patriots Rising in revolt against absolute tyranny. Let the Fight come, may it clear the air, of the stench, and pride, associated with the arrogance of not only Rome but Israel also, who knowingly enslaved their own children ! By Mercy and Truth sins are purged. Let Israel consider !