Government is still the nominal leader of society. Of course in a democracy (I said democracy not republic) in a democracy we always have the loyal opposition. This balance is good. But nations or peoples throughout the ages have tried to choose the most favored in looks, demeanor, morals, ethics and values, for this Honored Person is in effect us vicariously sitting on the Throne. We put our hopes for the future and good government into these people. So often half of us are disappointed. It is still good. So be it!

Government is the leader of society. The Mayor in your city, the Governor in your state and the President. So we try to elect persons who espouse our morals, ehics, and since of respect. In the end a democratically elected government is the will of the people in terms of morals, ethics etcetera. Ideally they should not be in opposition at all.

Earth is heaven, I like that.

This sounds like something Al Gore would say. I cannot image Bush speaking these words from a dais, the audience would be rolling in the floor with laughter if not with scorn.

Amen. Staying free and independent is much more than just ones relationship to his various local, state, national, and international governments but has to do with how one conducts his personal and social life.

Mike would probably prefer to return to Colonial times when parents owned their children and had virtual right of life and death over them. Lets not get into the right or wrong of that but lets move on. Today your children are not yours, they belong to "God" or to themselves, you are just a care take, so take care. As far as taxes rant and rave all you want to but the national debt belongs to us and like all debts we have to pay it. Some of us like the debt because it pays us a nice rate of interest. Some of us who may be millionaires or billionaries get hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars of interest each year, Life is good real good and our children can pay off the debt later! So you are sticking it to your children again hey Mike? Why is receiving a handout from a church any better than receiving a handout from a car dealer, a large corporation, a national foundation, a state, or a nation. A handout is a handout. From the recipients point of view he is still getting a handout. Judith paid hers back. Did you pay the church back, Mike? As far as churches go some can be very conservative until it is time to pass the plate and then they ask every one to be very liberal.

I am sorry I thought you were against taking the fruit of the noble laborer. Are not sales taxes and gas taxes from the fruit of the noble laborer just as much as income tax.

I agree with you Judith. I only used the terms "sweet and beautiful" and "greedy poor and ugly" to point out a glaring falaicy. The children of wealth don't have to work and they farewell thank you very much but is anyone complaining about them being lazy and on welfare, their parents and grandparents welfare but welfare just the same. Yet the same folks who defend may ignore those lazy people attack the poor who may need a little assistance. Not trying to start a class war because there are many responsible and thinking billionaires, Warren Buffet and Bill Gates for example. If you want to learn about responsible wealth go to Responsible Wealth.com and read about these people. I still submit that a nation of billionaries and billonarie foundations within a bankrupt nation ain't quite right and we have Reagan, and the Bushes to thank for it. Thank goodness even the Republicans running this year are talking like Democrats. We are finally out of the Bush leagues.

Why is it that the people who can take care of themselves the best wish to provide for their children and grandchildren a welfare handout (inheritance) so that their children will not have to take care of themselves at all. "Inheritance is welfare for your sweet and beautiful children and grandchildren you care about", "Welfare is a hand out to greedy poor and ugly children that you don't care about." Are not those who are living on their parents money the ones who are wasting their labor. Look around folks, and observe the number of billionaries and how it is increasing and the number of Philanthropic Foundations and how they are increasing and then look at Uncle Sam under Reagan, Bush the I, and Bush the Worst, and how the Fed debt has grown to 9 trillion. Get the connection. Wake up!

Freedom comes from limited population. The pioneers kept moving west as the east got more crowded. The pioneers were liberal in helping each. The first laws gining women rights and political power was in the free and liberal American West. Apparently Ken never heard of Scrooge (and that is a shame at this time of year) who is the quintessential and essence of the me first conservative. As we know when Scrooge became a liberal and doubled his employees salary, he Scrooge became a very happy man. Liberals are only miserable because of the stupidity of the non-liberals like the ones who attack global warming as a left wing/liberal media driven lie. Wake up folks to the stupidiy around us especial in the conservative ranks!

Personal liberty is much more a function of relationships with others than with government. All relationships tend to define and control us. Choose your relationships wisely.

As usual the devil is in the details. And the details here are "as comports with order and the rights of others". Who decides what is order and what are the rights of others. I find every one I know has something to say or an opinon about what I do or how I do it. Of course I don't give a damn (as long as I stay out of jail) so thus there is my freeedom.

You have to love Ol' Ben, and it is easy for me a Philadelphia Boy. The Bible says that Jesus came so "that we may have life and have it more abundantly". I think that means that he wants us to be happy. I think there is something to what Ben is saying. Lack of moderation in anything will make you ill.

This guy appears to claim to be a Humanist and a Rationalist. If that is so then Jesus is a humanist and a rationalist for he said, "If you love me then love one another." and "Whatever you do for the least of these (children) you do for me." Humanists are often depicted as contrary or opposed to relgion or Christianity. Hey brothers and sisters lets all come together in the New Year and express and act upon our commonality!

The other day we thought about the subject of TOLERANCE. Is not being INDIFFERENT similar to that. Some times we may not feel compelled to take sides but yet are willing to let the sides keep arguing. We may appear to be indifferent but in effect we are being tolerant of points of view and keeping our powder dry. I think Doug is the one on the right track here. Mike, would you prefer that people hate Ron Paul, Mike Gravel, and Dennis Kucinnich. I in some deep, love of democracy way, love all of the guys/gals who want to be President (well maybe not Thompson). It is immature to think we have to either love or hate their policies. Kennedy said that the choices in the world are often not black or white, there is a lot of gray out there. And gray is where indifference comes in.

Life takes risk, love takes risk. Even plant life has some risk. Those who do not take a risk will never find love. Might as well just be a stone or as Mr. Russel said dead.

Somehow brilliant but I am still thinking about this one.

Aesop was sooo ahead of his time. Now we have Evolutionary Pshycologists that tell us that little kindnesses create a quantum leap in the quality of life of each of us and of the society as a whole. What kind of world and society would we have if each of us slammed the door in the face of the other rather than holding the door for the total stranger coming in behind you. Funny though we have to learn this behaviour. Children don't know that being kind to strangers comes back to you in "quantum leaps".

These are great quotes today. It seemeth to me we are losing tolerance and individual thinking in America today. I have heard Huckabee being attacked for trying to "establish religious domination". Some say the pilgrim fathers left Europe to escape such a thing.

The greatest creed is to choose no creed at all, don't take side with parties or creeds that wish to tell you what to think but keep your options open.

Kennedy was great and an independent thinker. He also said and I paraphrase, "Sometimes party loyalty demands too much.", which seems to be consistent with the diversity he champions here.

Political parties and religions are the biggest obstacle to inquiry and I do think it is a very serious evil.

The current greatest danger lies in insidious encroachment of the environment that belongs to all of us by men of zeal for personal profit and gain without regard to the welfare of others. These people are polluters, poachers etcetera. Liberty is unfortunately not an absoulte value or prioirity but must be balanced by men of common sense and good will. This ENFORCEMENT of common sense and good will may appear to be an attack on LIBERTY in the short run but liberating in the long run.