“... as all history informs us, there has been in every State & Kingdom a constant kind of warfare between the governing & governed: the one striving to obtain more for its support, and the other to pay less. And this has alone occasioned great convulsions, actual civil wars, ending either in dethroning of the Princes, or enslaving of the people. Generally indeed the ruling power carries its point, the revenues of princes constantly increasing, and we see that they are never satisfied, but always in want of more. The more the people are discontented with the oppression of taxes; the greater need the prince has of money to distribute among his partisans and pay the troops that are to suppress all resistance, and enable him to plunder at pleasure. There is scarce a king in a hundred who would not, if he could, follow the example of Pharaoh, get first all the peoples money, then all their lands, and then make them and their children servants for ever ...”

Is this America he's describing here? With just a bit of editing it would be. The foresight is amazing. Foresight nor hindsight exists in our administration today. It's all the here and now. They want it here and they want it now. World government I mean.

There is and always has been a centralizing force in society. Larger populations natural reduce the freedom of the individual and increase the requirement for greater organization, planning etcetera. Group planning, projects and infrastructure require group funding, taxes. Thank goodness in America we have one of the lowest tax rates in the industrialized world. One of the lowest postal rates. Franklin's observation may or maynot be true but it also points out that no matter how low or high taxes are people bitch about them. It is recorded that folks complained bitterly about the "treaury rats" during Lincoln's Presidency. These were the same people who throght their efficiency won the war and saved the Union. People complained bitterly when the 2% income tax was imposed on a small number of rich when the income tax was enacted. So it seems Franklin like all the others are just part of a human inclination to BITCH!

Lincolns' decision to abrogate States rights by not allowing a sucession may have kept the union together by force, but he was the first President to unconstitutionally undermine the spirit of voluntary agreement to abide by the Constitution and marked the end of free and independant States. This is regardless of how one feels about the atrocities of slavery. But since they enter in at some point anyway, How does it feel to be a slave to perpetual debt?

Franklin was exactly right and he perfectly describes government in general,and ours is no exception. As to Komrad Waffler, Franklin was not "bitching", he was simply stating a fact of history.

We are not in perpetual debt if we would but pay it off. What ever happened to our political will in this our country? Blue thinks this is a site to wallow in right wing BS rather than a place for free intelligent interchange.

I agree Jim, but it does seem someone else is doing a lot of "bitching". Money is needed to run a country but when we gave congress to much power we changed the meaning to parts of the Constitution. ie: "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

The theocratic oligarchy that now infests this nation is by Supreme Court decision no longer a government of We The People, but rather an autonomous entity that has inherent right. We The People no longer vote for persons to represent us, We The People now vote for persons and entities to represent the foreign despot. Where once the States united expression was limited by a Republic's Constitution, a theocratic oligarchy acts in full array of its foreign despot status. Franklin's here statement, is history repeating itself. Waffler, I've tried to subpoena the group in the name of the 'Public', I couldn't find its address in the Republic of individual sovereigns. And, Waffler, how do we pay off a debt where 100% of all that was borrowed was done with interest. The only way to pay the principal and the interest is to borrow more. hmmm

And how would you propose we pay it off?

America -- a country that was unique in all the world -- a country where only gold and silver are lawful money (still today) and the citizen can own land in allodium where no man/government could tax it EVER. Today however, we find ourselves with our lawful money confiscated in exchange for paper currency (every dollar of which found in circulation has been borrowed at interest -- a point Waffler refuses to acknowledge) and our land patents unused (which every sovereign understands the value thereof). With our money taken and our property taxed or taken from us, we are but a shadow of the Republic for which our forefathers fought. We do not know what an American's rights are any more because our educational system has been hijacked by collectivists who believe that this form of permanent servitude is best for us. And instead of parting the seas for our exodus, our 'savior' is calling for a deluge of more paper money to 'buy' our way out when in fact we are merely indenturing ourselves further into servitude. They have already taken our money and our land -- now they want our minds, too. Waffler is already gone.

We are a democratic oligarchy now. The government owns us. IDIOTS have let this happen for almost 100 years now. Short of anarchy or a natural disaster, I don't see it changing. We are screwed as a nation by a few despots that directed us to our current state of waste. Absolutley corrupted by absolute power. Washington saw it coming centuries ago, that's why he resigned the Presidency when he did. Idiots who think this is the way it is supposed to be are just idiots.

Well done Mike; once a country becomes a theocratic oligarchy, supported by the banks, the wealthy, and the military, there is little we can but eat cake. Then is the time for all good men to come together - I'm counting on you all... Archer, a point to add is that not only are they taking our money and the land upon which we rest our weary bodies, but they are rewarding those who got us into this mess with further loans and those borrowers who were responsible are punished.

Stand up like men and women or adults and demand a surplus budget involving spending cuts and tax hikes. A surplus of 500 billion for 20 years would be a good start. Probably would entail an increase in enforcement efforts. Every dollar paid to enforcement brings in 10 dollars in taxes. A substantial increase in the IRS budget would go a long way towars closing the current cheat gap of 300 billion.

We would not be allowed by the "democratic" oligarchs to pay off the debt even if we wanted. Every dollar saved is a dollar waiting to be stolen. Debt is slavery, slaves we are, and slaves we will remain.

Washington DID resign in 1796. He had become disillusioned with the political split in the government. He wanted to resign after his first term but was persuaded not to. Less than 1% of the population, including Anonymous and Waffler, know anything about the constitution and what government is supposed to be. Try to do some research instead of relying on wrong schoolbooks and the media.

Never hear from JT before and he starts off on a terrible foot. I don't pretend to know everything and I suggest you beware of those who do especially beware of yourself. Washington served from April 1789 to March 1797 a period of 8 years. He gave and published his Fareweel Address to the nation in September 1796, His reluctance to seek a third term may be what you consider as a resignation. I don't know about your population statistics but you are showing yourself above to be pretty dimwitted, JT. Have a great day!

A thousand stars. What Great Ben is describing is what American will never be like. The Founding Fathers put a system together to secure our natural liberties and bind the Government down with the chains of the Constitution. This quote is from Thomas Jefferson's Kentucky Resolution. Let's always remember what Jefferson said: Liberty requires eternal vigilance.

Waffler, YOU are one of the reasons this country now sucks. I may have been snowed most of my life, but I know the truth now. My wish is for you to figure it out too. Everything you say has been spoonfed to you. If you are as brilliant as you think, verify it yourself. I don't have any more time to spend with the Maroons. God help the USA!

Case in point: "Franklin's observation may or maynot be true" is obviously true if you understand the government, Waffler. My job is not to provide income for "groups" but to provide for me, my family, and support my friends. You and your groups can go suck off the government teat, thanks to me and the hardworkers overtaxed in this country. It's just disgusting, the blood suckers in the US!

Yes the government wants more...and more and more. And it's not about paying off the imaginary debt that was created by borrowing imaginary money. Your tax dollar goes to nothing more than the interest on the imaginary debt and amounts to pure profit for international bankers who care not at all for America or its Constitution. Its about keeping you under control as Franklin alludes...and its also why they're coming after the guns...Libertys Teeth. Control control control...It's not really the land of the free anymore. But that will change.

There is no physical way to pay off our debts -- the 'money' we pay debts with are also debts. No debts have been discharged since there hasn't been any real money in circulation since 1934. Every single 'dollar' in circulation today is an interest-bearing promissory note, whether it is a dollar bill or a check or a bank account -- EVERY dollar is borrowed. Even if everyone's bank accounts were emptied to pay off all debts, there would still be more debt to pay. This is the system of plunder written into law -- by law, we must remain in perpetual debt, just like the slaves of old. All real property is eventually confiscated and then rented back to us. That is the SYSTEM, and until it is changed, we will ever grow deeper and deeper in debt. All we need do is seize the assets of the Federal Reserve and return them to the people. Of course, it means recognizing the bankruptcy of the US government, the worthlessness of Treasury bonds, and the collapse of the federal government. States and citizens will then have to reassert their sovereign status, dissolve the Union and start again. Anything less is the continuation of the scam and permanent feudalism to the banking clan. If Iceland can do it, so can we!

This is not what I think but what I know, Ben Franklin erred and with his error be serves those in power today. He said there were 2 things certain, death and taxes, ALL taxes were abolished when our sole means of payment, (silver coins) were removed from banks. Instead of death being abolished, our Marxist misleaders strive to expedite our demise via abortion, alum, alloxan, aspartame, bromine, chlorine, carageenan, fluoride, Splenda, vaccines and God alone knows all of the toxins in our food and drinks. It is not possible to pay taxes with credit. The British-created Federal Reserve said their system "works (us) only with credit" that would keep its value "if there were fewer people bidding against each other."---Keeping Our Money (their credit) Healthy. While the press, the schools, all universities and national organizations and the pope ALL lie about taxes and spending but the Fed admitted with the words above that NOBODY pays taxes while millions PLAY taxes with the Imaginary Revenue Scum AND the Fed TELLS THE TRUTH !! YOU serve the system when you speak of taxes and government spending as if they are real! With credit existing only in minds, they must control most minds to work all of us with credit--don't most believe the lis about government spending? There would be no wars if wars required taxes. Our misleaders cannot get money from us when all that we have in banks is numbers and have no use for money when all of us are risking our lives for more numbers. Print this and read daily for 5 days. Go to Amazon.com and get a copy of "Money", The Greatest Hoax on Earth by Merrill Jenkins,
42-years out-of-print and to alibris.com for a copy of: LAWFUL MONEY Plaintiff vs LEGAL PLUNDER Defendant by Bruce McCarthy

Waffler may know the Constitution as well as anyone else but perhaps he is rewarded for twisting it. We should think that occaisionally he would have something correct but I have never seen that,

Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison and many of our nation's founders were great historians and researchers of government/s.
Because of their wisdom, knowledge and insights they tried with all their might in their promulgation of the U.S. Constitution to revere, protect and uphold the unalienable and natural rights of the individual from an overreaching government and its all too often tendencies to become a dictatorial despotic plunderer.

Waffler - I would suggest to you that you stop walking through 'Alice's Looking Glass' or at least quit admiring despots like Karl Marx.

Within the light that shines eternal " their is a reward " Be strong and of a Good courage. Our Creator, is not slack concerning those that are His. Before our very eyes, moreover our Ears which have been made to Hear, the treasures of Knowledge, gifts to the children of men. Liberty from oppression, Freedom to do, that which is Right and should be done. The time is ripe, Hope like Life is a four letter word, just as code. Awaken thou that sleepest and Christ shall give the Light. The " Earnest of our Inheritance " NEVER TO BE ASHAMED OF OUR LIBERTY AND FREEDOM AND ITS SOURCE. from the Greek, Homologoumenos, like minded, to Declare openly by way of speaking out freely. Such confession being the Effect of deep convictions of Fact ! " Take heed unto thyself and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that Hear thee " I Tim 4:16. Saad Al Melik, Saad Al Sund. Fom Al Haut declares his knowledge, this from the heavens above. Plunder is the key word, as also the rarity of an Honest prince or king..

Is it not all of our duty as citizens to inform all members of the citizenry, whatever their position, of the past societal conflicts, and present the proper evidence of the need for the appropriate harmonizing changes?