“It's not the voting that's democracy; it's the counting.”

Wasn't it Stalin who stated that it wasn't important who cast the votes, it mattered who counted them? Even if the majority is always good, it is not wise to base everything on majority rule. Why? Majorities can be defrauded; it has happened before, and it will happen again-- even within our own country. If tyrants are elected by fraud, it is important for the people to remember their foundations in principles, morals, truths, and rights. It is only by the people realizing the assumptions of individual and inalienable rights that they can fight against a government that could be elected by fraud. Germany forgot her foundations when Hitler was elected by fraud, and this paved the road for him to trample and destroy their country. There was so much unnecessary death because the people forgot their true foundations.

I do not believe that Hitler was elected to be Germany's leader. He strong armed his way into power from a minority position in the German government. The leaders were afraid of him and kept giving in till it was too late. Kind of like the left and its shenanigans today in the U.S.

Just ask the good folks over at Diebold. http://www.theonion.com/content/video/diebold_accidentally_leaks .... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Vvq_YseZVc and there are many more....

Yes, yes, yes... Our votes are being stolen as we speak - our counting is a mockery - we should demand all machines are totally verified by top experts from both parties and not just by the incumbent -- it is a disgrace to all Americans the way in which we have all be hoodwinked by criminals (politicians) in the name of technology -- the same now is happening in the name of security and again we will be apathetic.

What if our rights were not secured by an electronic voting machine that is easily hacked? What a concept! Has everyone forgotten that not everything is up for vote? In fact, NO rights can ever be voted away. Those that think they live in a democracy should remember that the office of the presidency has acquired unconstitutional and dictatorial powers that both Republican and Democrat presidents have used to tighten the noose on the American people. It is only because public opinion is not focused upon these abuses that the power of the majority has not been able to have these powers rescinded. The problem with democracies is that the ruling elite have spent decades perfecting the techniques and technologies for molding public opinion. Mass psychology is hard at work in our media, making the abuse of power easier for our 'leaders.' If the press does not condemn it, it is simply ignored. Watch CNN all day, and you will become a perfect tool of the ruling class and will goosestep along proudly with your fellows just like in Nazi Germany.

Stoppard was such a genius in writing "Rosencrantz and Guildenstern" I don't know how he could pen such cynicism as this. This is in bad taste and of poor quality. I may be wrong but do any here believe that as a general rule the vote of the American people has been counted in any fashion other then honestly. I have been the judge of election and when the machine is opened the opposite party looked over my shoulder as I read out the numbers on the totalizator. Six persons from opposing parties recorded the figures so read on to six different manifests. All politics is local and if the locals allow themselves to be defrauded well I just cannot beleive the Americans I know would let that happen.

You are apparently not familiar with Washington state elections where votes are "found" all the time. If your vote is "wrong" then your signature becomes suddenly suspect, and on and on ad nauseum. There is no confidence in our elections, even by the winners if truth be told.

Waffler, your situation then was ideal-- not everyone has shared your same results. Diebold machines have been known to contain pre-voting information when delivered to the poling stations, bad paper feeding trays that prohibit a hard paper trail, and easy security breach bluetooth type wireless modems that can be easily hacked. There have also been sworn testimonies before Senate judiciary committees of programmers who have turned state's evidence against the programming companies that originated and wired the software in electronic voting machines to "throw" elections. These are just a few of the problems that have come up against Diebold and electronic voting machines. The are some states that are motioning to completely reject and throw out the electronic voting machines after state courts have found evidence of intentional voting fraud.

The fact that these cases are news is proof that most of the news is good and boring. I come from a financial auditing background. Can things get screwed up yes, do things have a way of being discovered yes. Are most of our politicians elected honestly yes. If a man wins by 70% and all surveys say he was only liked by 30% well he is going to be caught. Ken I lived in Tacoma, Wash until I was seven. I alwasy heard it referred to as the land of good government. Wha happened?

What happened, Waffler, was corruption in the form of the teacher's union and Indian casinos, both of which had a lot of money to throw around) that influenced one particular political party. At the same time a large influx of people moved here from California (maybe fleeing from Cali?) and brought their own political way of life with them. This threw the balance of power to the same party that was being bought by the teacher's union bosses and casino owners and left the opposition party floundering and helpless. We basically have a single party state and a corrupt one at that. I let you figure out which party is which. It shouldn't be too hard.

Another reason that the USA was NOT founded as a democracy.  If our rights are up for vote, then they are not rights but privileges only.

An accurate statement: "Its not the voting that's democracy;" The counting is but one of the wrongs inherent in democracy.

Waffler, what is apparent is how little has been said about how crooked the voting is in the U.S.A. There are multiple ways to stack the vote. Electronic voting machines are but just one of the ways. Dead people voting, a single person voting multiple times, those not legally authorized to vote voting, etc., etc., etc.

The corruption also happens in all parties. Remember Romney's results in New Hampshire against Ron Paul then most recently, in Utah against his Republican opponent? California's corruption with all it/they came to bare against Trump is unbelievable except for its reality.

Democracy is opinions, ideas, answers, solutions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJEuZrvNYg0
Take a look at what a republic actually is...it certainly is not mob rule.