The root of America's whole problem. Most individual Americans have no clue what the Constitution personally means to them as individuals and not just as a nation or society of people. They believe what they have been taught to believe what it personally means to them. This of course has been done intentionally to suppress individual choice from the political world and (other than the vote and one's opinion) limit it to the social. Because of the missing individual factor the majority are free to exert influence on law makers who are already under the thumb of special interests. Speciial interests want the majority to think a certain way about freedom and Constitution and so the reason for control of power in the mass media and educational systems in our country. Once done, the majority within the realms of these systems will promote the created line of thought because they believe it to be the truth and the snowball effect occurs and the newly trained ignorant teach the next generation to be ignorant. The loss of the individual political purpose which is the rock foundation of the Constitution explains how our republic became a democracy. The political purposes of a party (just another special interest) become paramount and special interests determine what laws are written to be enforced under threat of punishment, in their interests. So our government is run by the special interests that happen to have the most influence at any given time over any particular politician. This is not constitutional nor the natural operation of our government. The natural way of responsible self government has been shelved for the rule of the whims of groups of people with their own agendas and the kind of government they can force on the individual with the enforcement power of law. If Americans ever decide they want their freedom back they have to learn the constitutional individual political purpose facts at the root of our republican American heritage. 5 stars for the vital point it brings up.

Sorry to here that news Lynda. This being the case I'm venturing to say that not only did they collect fines and penalties from H&R but you are still, at the least, under threat of, or already have been punished by, penalties as part of your agreement. Was interest put on hold during your three year ordeal of trying to be a good citizen? Will you pay more than the original amount "owed" was? Were you willing to get the problem solved as implied by going to H&R in the first place? Did you have any influence on the payment plan or did the IRS determine it for you? If so, were you happy with it disregarding any prior misgivings you may have for the IRS? Over all, did you have a good experience or a bad one? Did you at any time feel intimidated, or that the IRS was there as a friendly service to help you? I don't expect or need answers to these questions because they were asked only to stimulate minds to think of what you've said. You said "The IRS can (and will) ruin your life even in my meager exsistence."-----Two final questions, Did you feel any anxieties from coercions or fear from threats in your dealings with them? Being willing, did you at all feel uncomfortable during your experience and treated with a do as I say I am the boss attitude? It is when examples of these type show up that abuse of power happens and our servants should be politely reminded of who the person is, a free American paying taxes on a "voluntary" basis. I have found it quite odd, though it is the way it is, that even put respectfully, not many IRS people like to hear this. This is where anxiety is struck in their hearts and rather than laugh off what you've said as ridiculous because it's all fantasy, as many people do, all of a sudden you have their respect and attention because now they know you know something and now they want to know how much you know. And so the game begins, but as I'm sure you know, it's no game when one's livelihood is at stake. Your case is interesting in that you thought you were just paying your taxes honestly, fell victim to H&R's error, and have spent at least 3 years sorting the problem out and at the end of it say what I quoted you as saying above. For three years your life, or a major part of it, the economic part, was in limbo with no solution reached. This is not nor ever was what freedom is about and if there was justice claimed here it is onesided because the tax was probably unconstitutional to begin with, "legal plunder," you needed to pay someone to do your confession for you who fouled that up and then had to wait their 3 year leisure to settle your case. And you still continue to pay that unconstitutional tax on top of what is taken from your Social Security every month by another tax. More changes have come to limit even more of that payment with the current law in the case of a deceased spouse that takes away half the higher earning spouses SS and combines it with half the lower earning spouses SS where it used to be the lower dropped theirs and got the others if the deceased was the higher earner. I could go on but won't but to make the point that regardless if anyone still believes they are free in America with voluntary free will to determine what path their life shall take for the good of them and their families they are NOT FREE! They can think what they want, or what others think, believe what they think, say what they believe and deny it all, but, it doesn't change reality. Government, by self or by other(s) over other(s) is control of power pure and simple. It is not a question of what taxes are paid through the course of one's life that's important, it is the question of how much power does government have over one that is important. Examine one's own life incrementally in every aspect and though many can justify it in their minds there is no denying the control of power that exists and who has it. Whether for good or for bad government has the power, not the free individual as nature dictates and our Constitution establishes as the law of the land. History unfortunately repeats itself and we the people are well and truly below the 50% share with the shift in the balance of power from the individual person to the government. Sorry for the dissertation Lynda and no disrespect meant to you with it.

Archer, you've brought up an interesting bit of truth with the SS number. I understand that parents are getting them for their children BEFORE they take them home from hospital. I wonder what the result if the parent refused to sign the paperwork? Hmm.

Archer---The prior quote to this one i.e. by Cummings, is underlied by volumes of truth and it is the Constitutional status of the individual that plays the major role in the preperation of any case involving the IRS and for that matter any bureaucracy of our government. What power do you have, what power do they have, and how does one get the power they have back from them which then works to your advantage when used properly. It's interesting to note that in the Constitutional foundations of our country all power resides in the individual and so the necessity for dedication and perserverence to get it back.

http://www.google.ie/search?sourceid=navclient&hl=en-GB&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4DAIE_en-GBIE274IE275&q=IRS+code%2c+statute+of+limitations-------http://www.irs.gov/irm/part25/ch06s01.html#d0e13813----------------http://www.nysscpa.org/cpajournal/2006/806/essentials/p46.htm---------------There are more links and it is important to note that the all confusing methods of the IRS code have statutes of limitations that vary depending on issues at matter and one limitation doesn't necessarilly apply to another situation. I should tell you that my case was not criminal in nature but only civil and therefore no incarceration involved but only seizures of property and/or any form of monetary property. How I kept them out of my pockets for the period of limitations is another story which I choose not to get into here. Each persons circumstance is different and methods of battle will determine, because of these differences, the way to attack and defend and of course to this day the same holds true. For my own protection I can't say more except that for any law there is a loophole if one is dedicated enough to find them. Going a bit further there are ways to lawfully create a non "taxpayer" status which removes IRS jurisdiction from ones life that is not a matter of filling out a form and your done. Again, dedication is required and our government will at every step of the way search for a way to trip you up and mistakes in one's process of getting them off your back can be devestating to your case. This process is far from easy and the IRS counts on fear and intimidation, not to mention personal ignorance, to forestall anyone going this way. The point is, it does work and the difference between victory and defeat in cases I've seen is the amount of dedication and perserverence each individual has.This is not surprising as I'm sure you're aware of the dedication and perserverence of our IRS. I hope some of this helps.

Having had personal experience with our concerned and caring IRS personel I find this quote true. The first of the last two meetings I had with my friends was an attempt to extort through fear and when that didn't work my friendly agent actually took me to the side and told me not to bother paying that which the IRS said I owed as the statute of limitations was coming up. At this meeting, there were also two IRS trainees learning the ropes so to speak. At my final meeting, a last ditch effort to collect a few days before the statute of limitations ran out, the same friendly agent informed me, with a laugh as a matter of fact, that the two "trainees" were really bodyguards that he (my friendly agent) didn't ask for but was given because of fear of me. The IRS well knew I didn't fear them because up to that point they hadn't been able to collect what they said I owed from prior actions and so the bodyguards. This is the way it should be, where the servant fears the master and not the other way around. My friendly agent knew the score but in his practical judgement he needed the job and was of the mind he couldn't do anything about what he knew I was right about. To this day, though I do detest his choice of work, I have a liking for this man who at least understood and let me know, indirectly, that he believed I was right and what they were asking him to do gave him misgivings. I like to think that at some point he gave up his dirty work for an honest job and has become unafraid of his masters. I believe this is possible because the truth, which he knew, tends to have that effect on people once they realise and deal with it instead of fearfully avoiding it. The truth is what our corrupt rulers fear and a lesson I learned is that if one man standing on it can induce fear in the servant, many times the one will create a fear in the entirety of our servant structure that will make them turn tail and run. The darkness of lies disappear when the light of truth is shined on them and the propagators of lies fear that light more than anyone thinks or knows. Know the truth, spread it without fear of mammon and it will, by nature, set us free.

Waffler, you left out the third way. Maybe Godfather's name will supply the clue needed to figure out what the third way is.

David Rosenthal---Archer is leading the way. He speaks the truth and the power of that which exposes lies will bring about the change when the oppressed awaken from their modern American dream and find themselves aware of the reality of truth.

David, Machias---I agree with all that you say with one minor difference. The ability God gave us to to create as close to heaven on earth as physically possible has been tweaked by religion so as to allow evil to continue by sitting back and waiting for God to save us. By this, people close their eyes to pray rather than open them and speak against the rulers of darkness and so the path to hell continues. This is why the believers in whatever their religion professes will do nothing but sit and watch. The excuse is that God will save us and so it is ok to pray to God on the one hand but OBEY mammon on the other. This is serving 2 masters and the excuse for accepting the mark (in whatever form it now exists or whatever form to come) is just what the rulers of darkness hope for and plan on. Pacifism is the name of the game as long as the fence which most sit on continues to stand and the side of God and what is good doesn't interfere with the side of the ruling mammon too much. The day will come when the choice of who one will serve will be apparent even if it is to serve the truth of His laws or the lies of man's law. Then the fence will come down and I believe that when that day comes, if not all at once but individually person by person, many who lived by both sides of the fence will face themselves and if God doesn't pass judgement individuals will be forced to by God's laws of nature. Avoidance of the truth will not be an option. The thumbs down is for the man made ideas contained within the quote that abrogate the laws of nature and nature's God.

Waffler, if we are to believe the IRS is treated the same way as the jews where are the cattle cars filled with IRS workers? Is this holocaust yet to happen? I suppose if what the posters on here say is taken in your context there ought to be a law against antisemi....I mean anti IRS speech and behavior. Your comparison is feeble though I suppose your masters give you a pat on the back for trying anyway.

Waffler, you compare the IRS to the jews under Hitlers influence. I ask, though not tatooed on yet, who has the number? The IRS or the taxpayer?

Taxation is a burden of any form. The effort to survive is taxing on one's life. Eventually, by the dictates of old age the taxing wear and tear on the body is what puts us in the grave. Whether we work for ourselves and receive the benefits thereof or those benefits are "taxed" by others, this basic law of nature does not change. Even the super rich will die simply for waking up in the morning and exerting whatever energy it takes to get out of bed. Taxation on the labor of others via their criminal system of forced debt and the taxation to repay it is only to make their survival easier at the expense of others labor which of course, by the natural result of theft, makes survival harder for the laborer. The power to tax is the power to destroy. Just as the taxations imposed by nature of energy used for personal survival destroys ones physical life during the time of his life, so the taxation of men by men.

Remove "Soviet", replace it with "World" and any international banking elitist could have said this.

They cause the need to justify the necessity. The necessity is more government control to satisfy the need.

The reason this new order can't and won't work is because it, the system and those who run it, DO NOT respect any one's right to life and their natural rights that are their life. Since the system is unnatural in opposition to Nature's laws, it is doomed to fail. Mess with Nature and Nature will mess you right back, naturally. This is the lesson man has never learned.

Ditto Mike. Every now and again one hits a topic that's been beaten like a dead horse and yet the horse won't stay dead. It's times like these that sometimes make one believe the heck with it I aint dealing with that again today. This is one of those days. Once again, ditto.

His words are deceptive too in that liberty is no longer chaste and austere. Liberty by nature can't be anything else but what it's purpose is and does. Free the individual. It can't be taken away because it exists in spirit and can only be restrained or constrained thus doing the same to the effects of chastity and austerity that result from being and living at liberty. Liberty will always be virgin as it was and is.

Exactly what happens all day every day throughout America's corrupted forms of admimistrative self governments whether Local, State, Federal and including all their ever growing bureaucratic overhead which costs us more future debt to subsidize it as well as what the ever growing gang of crooks are stealing while doing what is good and best for us bless their little hearts. (Scoff with sarcasm intended!)

Great analogy of present day life, we are all singing to the tune of our conductors.

If I could give as many stars to this quote equal to the amount of money the international bankers can create it still wouldn't be enough.

It's refreshing to see new names on here that REALLY KNOW what's going on. The love of money and the power the creation of it out of thin air brings IS the root of all evil. The quote is correct but my 5 stars are for the new names (to me) above!

The heart and soul, hidden beneath the confusions and questions of every conspiracy "theory" out there, of the beast.

Waffler, is the snake oil advice you're "selling" in your post what makes your fortune, or in other words, provides your salary? Yes, very trite indeed.

Amen!

A racist used to mean pride in one's cultural heritage and NOT the hatred of another race. My how the definitions of words have changed over the years. Discriminate used to mean an individual educated decision about "anything" as to whether the thing or circumstance was right and best for him/her. Prejudice was an uneducated decision. Now they are all hate words. Bang on Mike if political correctness was your point.