“The Care therefore of every man's Soul belongs unto himself, and is to be left unto himself. But what if he neglect the Care of his Soul? I answer, What if he neglects the Care of his Health, or of his Estate, which things are nearlier related to the Government of the Magistrate than the other? Will the magistrate provide by an express Law, That such an one shall not become poor or sick? Laws provide, as much as is possible, that the Goods and Health of Subjects be not injured by the Fraud and Violence of others; they do not guard them from the Negligence or Ill-husbandry of the Possessors themselves.”

Life is a risk, and nobody gets out alive. Government's purpose is not to fix the game so that we never lose -- it cannot be done. What we need to learn as a people is how to deal with those who have risked and lost and are still breathing.

Another lesson from history which oft goes untaught and, even more so, unlearned. As the noted American philosopher, Pogo, once said: "The enemy is us."

The Bullseye has been missed, though not by much, I think we had best learn how to deal with those have risked nothing and won - and are still breathing.

Non-bibical - yes. The Founders were wise to pay heed to this man. And yet the Religionists persist in saying that America was founded on Christianity. It was not.

it was goooood!!!

Our debate on this timeless theme is so sad. No elegance, clarity, or depth. This is what a sound bite/byte should be.

oops, that founding concept was lost. Secular government's domain of justice, liberty, and property do not intermingle with or, infringe on the charity of religion. It is precisely that reason why self, with personal religion (religious endeavors) and family has been the care takers of the soul and healthcare. When a foreign third party enters into the domain, administering religious ordinances and care, it is defined as a theocracy. The statist theocracy that now infests this land is a most heinous usurper of rights and, a tyrannically harsh dictatorial master.

Government simply can not legislate morality or intelligence. And it has no business whatever delving into the private affairs (robbery) of citizens who take responsibility for themselves, to support those who do not. Those who do not should be left to the laws of nature.

The basic concept is good but the quote is shallow. Many of those giving it a five would probably protest when bums, unemployed and victims of "the system" whatever it is start prolling your street. That is what happened in 18th century England and then "the community" felt that it had to do something other than just debtors prison. As far as Locke my opinion of him slipped mightily several quotes ago when he discrinated against and disparaged young man as a class as being somehow different than young women, adult men or adult women. He must have been a sick psychotic of some kind himself. He obviously failed to take care of his own soul or mind.

Locke was a hell of a lot smarter than you, Waffler. You try to discredit him by poorly paraphrasing something he supposedly said, then criticize the misquote as if he said it. What brilliance...(not)

Waffler's creating yet another strawman. I've looked back on the passage he mentions of Locke, and, of course, we find Waffler creating yet another strawman. Brilliant analysis by Locke, as usual.

America was founded on the respect of moral principles based in their worship of one God and faith in Jesus Christ. These moral principles can be found in other religions world wide in some form or another and it is these kinds of religions that were welcomed into the country as long as they lived by the law of the land which was respect of another man's rights (the highest of moral principles) held as high as the christians of the day held it. Atheists were no problem as long as their ethics called for by their conscience's were at an equal level to the principles gleaned from Jesus's moral principles. It's easy today to see that even many who claim to be christians lack a clear vision through the haze of confusion taught by many corrupt institutions just what these principles are and how to put them into effect not only today but in many todays yet to come. Such corruption began in the early days of man's existence on this planet. One God, one message, many messengers, chief of them being Jesus. Least of these being a fetus in the womb at the time of conception. An attack on our Constitution is an attack on the principles of the old and new testaments as it was these principles, eternal in nature, that ruled our nation when the phrase 'A nation of laws, not of men' is used. Today, these principle are being ripped straight from the heart of the Constitution but it can't be ripped from the heart and souls of Americans and others in the world. This is the place where the battle over control of YOUR mind begins and you have all odds working in your favor, and this battle on a personal level is the one you can win every single time thus raising your courage level. This, the slave drivers of modern perpetual economics do not want you to hear. The battle over your mind and soul begins here and they can't win if you choose not to let them.

It probably matters little to most of you, but "Separation of church and state is not in the Constitution (some ratifying states had official religions)." Kevin RC Gutzman, JD., Ph..D pages 175, 176 The Politically Incorrect Guide to the Constitution. It really rests with Justice Hugo Black, a member of the KKK. History is a very interesting subject. It is amazing just how hearing something over and over, even if it is incorrect, soon becomes "fact".

Anon, to me the "they" in your last lines to me represent corporations. Again, all this fuss over health care but the enemy of of economic, health, and ethics of this country are bound to corporations who earn profits and as you all well know plan the direction our country takes. More than religion I sometimes believe. The owners of the news media plan the propaganda we hear each and every day, and cut out from the news that which they do not want us to know. It is the greed of corporations that is destroying us not health care. Over 1,000 corporations in U.S. have moved to Mexico where the workers have very low wages and fewer rights. Maybe you think it is alright to squeeze every bit of sweat for as cheap as you can get it, but I think that is ethically corrupt. Americans who want to work, and did work are now without jobs due to this greed for profits, and prices keep going up. The fraud and violence of AIG and the other corrupt money markets while getting bail outs have further crushed our economy. And yet you all complain constantly about social security, medicare, and health care reform. The work is "reform", and yet the profits of war mean nothing, the loss of lives nothing. You all remind me of my ex-husbands crowed at Ernst and Ernst when the big salaried CPA's wanted to drop the Bomb on Vietnam. That's when I decided to leave. The value system of the have's is a planet away from the folks who have to go to war or die because our war machine owners demand more money to keep their standard of living. For God's sake let us open our eyes. It really has little to do with religion, or if at all, the lack of it.

Locke is a psychotic who hates and discrinates against young men. What kind of mind could he have had to be that shallow. Logan is a philosoper worshipper who can not think or analyse for himseld and who also thinks "America is a republic not a democracy".

Judith, you certainly put the wrong label on me but rather than attempt to prove it to you I will give you the benifit of the doubt and simply continue exposing evil where I find it and state what the problem is and how to fix it. For starters, in the U.S., the federal Reserve should be the first thing to go if we are ever to regain possession of our country. The fed is the connection that ties our wealth with a growing deficit and a perpetual debt that carries with it perpetual economic slavery from birth until death.

Judith, you seem to be a very nice but, very uniformed (misinformed by the statist theocracy's industrial media complex) lady. I've been in the business of manufacturing for many years. A few years ago, I had to move one of my plants from one city in the US to another city for nothing more than the government related costs. After moving, I instituted slight raises and better benefits (we had full health - added eye and dental) and was still able to save a major percentage on my product. I make the 'greenest' product of its type in the world (non-polluting, non-toxic, non-hazardous, (& a lot more nons I can't think of right now) both in manufacturing and in end product use) and am having a hard time trying to find a business friendly environment in the US. My attornies are actively pursuing other professionals in finding out what impact the latest tyranny (health care) will have on my business. I am told that I may be retiring or moving the business to another country. It has nothing to do with wages or benefits. I know of others that have moved out of the US. Wages and benefits were also way (WAY) down on the bottom of their lists on why they moved to other countries - just to stay in business (not greed, it was survival) I'm sure many companies have moved for the cause of cheaper labor but, it has been my personal experience that the majority of companies that are moving to other countries are for favorable business environments, availability of raw and manufactured materials (Ford's Brazil model for one), find less obtrusive regulatory environments (while making the same or more environmentally friendly products), less litigious societies, etc. All that seems to be staying are the fascist's favorites and those that support the statist theocracy's agenda.

Unfortunately, Mike, I am not terribly informed on the new health care plan, but it was my understanding that it would actually be a boom to the insurance business and save government in the long run. I regret to hear of the difficulties of your business and do not know of the insurance costs now or in the bill. I had a small business and two part-time employees and would have paid for their insurance except they didn't qualify as part-timers. At one time I did have a full-time woman and we both could get affordable rates but she preferred her subsidy plan with a University here. Dental and vision plans are cheap, at least in my opinion. I did not require a lot of profit, but should have in retrospect. You said you may move out of the country but not because of wages or benefits. Then why? I do tend to diverge at times especially when up in the middle of the night and can't sleep. Am trying to stay on subject and not diverge so much. Perhaps you can find some benefits now under the new "green move" to stay I know more and more people are looking for products made in the U.S.A. Thanks for the feedback.

Judith and Mike if you would ever be interested in opening your mind, the health care debate was about the fact that uninsured people flood emergency rooms with their problems and never pay their bills. The humanitarina laws and customs of our country require that they be served. These hospitals file claims against the government who pays the bill. The new system will require these free loaders to pay up. Now these people are not the destitute, the destitute are covered by Medicaid. The health bill is a win for all of us.

Judith, I mentioned the cost of regulation and doing business in the US for one (non labor related); also, some of my production is dependent on items no longer made to my specifications in the US and it is getting more difficult, if not impossible, to get the products imported because of governmental restrictions (not related to environmental or health problems). I haven't had the problem yet, but I know of some business that have had to go outside the US for banking of their day to day operations. So many banks over the last year and a half have eliminated their prime commercial departments in favor of sub-prime commercial departments which hurts legitimate businesses (again for government favors AND why would they do that???) There are other costly business reasons I may have to leave but, I'd rather not air those in this forum. It will probably be easier and cheaper just to retire and lay everybody off. Waffler, so what you're saying the health care debate was over was, how to use an immoral, unlawful, and unconstitutional solution to fix an immoral, unlawful, and unconstitutional problem. hmmm How about making those free loaders pay up and leave me out of it? Now that is a novel concept to the statist theocracy that has planned cannons to enslave not only their own patrons but each and every, any and all.

Another institutional is supposed to fill the void of governmental institutional shortcomings, and steps in, supposedly, the educational institution is to reinforce prevention of negligence of the individual themselves with the required life supporting information preserving individual character.

Every single politician, everyone who's ever been president; or vice president, alive today either legally or in a case or two, illegally, should not only learn this word for word but have it branded on his hind side permanently with a fresh from the fire branding iron!! With maybe a few precious exceptions.
Specifically previous "presidents" who've soiled the presidency with their lies, outright treason, and becoming rich off that office.