Norman Thomas Quote

“The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened.”

~ Norman Thomas

1948 - from an interview during the presidential campaign,

[Ed. note: Norman Thomas and Gus Hall, the U.S. Communist Party
Candidate, both quit American politics, agreeing that the Republican
and Democratic parties had adopted every plank on the
Communist/Socialist and they no longer had an alternate party platform
on which to run.]

Ratings and Comments

Anytown, USA

Yes, Socialism is seductive, but who would have thought that Fascism would be so well received? Gulp!

Anonymous, My town, USA

While I suspect it would fall upon deaf ears, this quote needs be shared with the DNC.

Joel, Rochester, MI

This is important to read again. We have gone from a Republic, past democracy to a Tyranny. Our own government has usurped power from the people. When they begin confiscating our weapons, we must fight or be their slaves.

Sharyn Longley, Arcadia, Florida

Yes, I agree with all these statements about this quote. I just wish I knew of a gentle, effective way to talk to all my friends, mostly Dems, so they could really understand this without getting so defensive about it. Readers may also do a search on "Fabianism" to discover more about this incidious agenda.

Ozarks Old Folks

This is a five-star quote. Print it and put it somewhere you will see it every day - educate your young people about our country's true history.

Anonymous, youngtown

Who or what is the source of this quote? The info under "source" above provides no info about where/when the quote materialized or in what context.

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Anonymous    8/1/07

I first heard this quote in a speech Ronald Reagan gave against Universal Health Care. The two go hand in hand.

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Anonymous    8/7/07

I like the quote, but the editor's note is a little misleading since Thomas died in 1968.

Dougmcr8, Springfield, VA

I give it only 3 stars because the first part is true but not the second. Many, many Americans will know exactly how this country became a Socialist Constitutional Republic. Some I read above. But we were outvoted. Just that simple. At least until the pendulum swings back our way - slowly.

Mike, Norwalk

a prophesy fulfilled

Waffler, Smith, Arkansas

True, Americans have been brain washed and have a knee jerk reaction to the word. In practice however we accept socialisms all of the time because they work to give us better lives. Look at the farmer cooperatives out in the countryside. Sewer systems are socialisms as well as any form of school public or private where folks come together to learn. Urban and suburban planning as to where the streets and malls etcetera should be are socialisms. A cooperative society is socialism. Grow up America and learn what socialism is (doing things together) but never accept TOTALITARIANSIM that is what is to be avoided.

Southern Grey, Elsewhere

The political spectrum is not linear, but rather circular. We thus find socialism/communism to be kissing kin with fascism with only the ownership of the factors of production offering clues as to the differences.

Anonymous, Reston, VA US

The facist right has gone and don it again, reframed the arguments (see comments above) such that few even understand what the terms really mean. We are much closer to their facist goals than to any socialist goals, and what serves as a left today is really more of a moderate middle ground than having any hint of socialism.

warren, olathe

Mr. Anytown - socialism and fascism are almost indistinguishable in practical application. I doubt that you have any concept of what fascism really is. The quote is so dead on and obviously true. Anyone with any intellect would have figured this out on there own but somebody had to say it. Dougmcr8 - you are right that many see it, but that isn't the point. The point is that the majority in this country will be incrementally duped into thinking that it is acceptable. Between feigning concern for the less fortunate and preaching blind hatred for any one that would insert reason into the equation, the socialists will always get some or all of their agenda into law. Many otherwise conservative people are sucked into the hate the wealthy mentality because they lack the intellect to see through it. This is probably the biggest weapon the left has. Hate the rich, hate banks, hate corporations, and really, really hate big oil. Oil must be hated because energy is the key to the economic engine of a free economy. Socialists believe that all the ills of the world will be solved if we can just destroy the free economy. That is why they flock to and flood every political group out there from environmentalists, animal rights, abortion rights, and human rights. The goal is to get us to give up a little bit at a time. Roger Baldwin is winning. Once the socialists are securely in charge with no ability for their removal all of those "concerns" will simply disappear because they were merely vehicles to be discarded when the real objective is realized.

E Archer, NYC

Socialists confuse 'society' with 'government.' Society is a blessing, and it is from society that public services arise without coercion. It is when we force our good intentions on those who do not share them and indeed live fine without them that socialism and society draw the battle lines. The lure of socialism is the lie that government can provide for us -- it can't and it doesn't. WE provide for ourselves AND our government. By right, I cannot be forced to pay for my neighbors' bankruptcy (in whatever form it may take). I may, however, out of compassion and humanitarianism help out if I choose to, but when I am forced to give up the fruits of my own labors to prop up those that want something for nothing, then we have socialism. The GOP and Dems have indeed adopted every plank of the Communist Manifesto and it has bankrupted the country. What socialists don't see is that socialist, fascist, communist governments are under the thumb of the richest and most powerful who hide behind the scenes. With Liberty gone, the most we can hope for is a benevolent king -- and it ain't the president. Socialists almost always say that if we left public services up to society, they would never get done. What they mean is that unless we are subservient to a ruling class that 'knows better' everything will fall apart and there will be rioting in the streets. All the while the ruling elite wage foreign and domestic wars to keep us all wrangling with each other while they go laughing to the bank. Private industry can ALWAYS provide better services than a monopolistic government -- if we were to count on Washington for our bread, we would all starve. Five stars for being a true statement, but thumbs down for the reality of it.

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RobertSRQ    2/28/08

We dish out $millions to oil companies, we already ahave a signle payor healthcare system for 120 million Americans, Washington politicians get healthcare for life, and the list goes on. So, what's all the fuss about?

Logan, Memphis, TN

Well said, Archer.

Waffler, Smith, Arkansas

We all pay for each others health care in every product we buy. Those companies who do best at cornering the market on their product can acheive sufficient profits to give their employees the best health care possible. Smaller companies can not compete and may loose good employees to the companies with better heath care. A universal program will take employer based health care away and should lower prices of product that includes the health care premium. And if everyone has to pay some premium (those who are now geting a free ride for instance) the health care industry should improve.

Logan, Memphis, TN

Marx would certainly agree with you Waffler. Actually, he would absolutely agree with you considering his 1st, 3rd, and 8th planks.

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    RobertSRQ    2/28/08

    well said Waffler

    E Archer, NYC

    Insurance? Folks, it's the damn insurance business that has gotten us into this mess in the first place! 'Insurance' is but another twisted word that implies 'security' when in fact it is a form of gambling. But insurance also attempts to relieve people of their responsibility -- and to place blame on others -- 1 out of 4 Americans will be sued in their lifetime. Insurance is the game of commercial law -- betting on outcomes. It is driven by speculation and statistics. It is a lawyer's heaven! Before long, the lawyers start passing statutes that govern liability to better suit the insurance companies. Those of you crying foul of corporate America and begging for National Health Care are quite frankly, nuts. Who do you think government contracts to provide social services?... American corporations!! Besides health care, the insurance business governs trade and has influenced the court system in favor of enormous profits. This drives up the cost of health care, trade, and legal services as well. What we need is REFORM! Not more of the same. Canada has a national health care SYSTEM, not universal health INSURANCE -- there is a difference, and what is being proposed in the US is not a health care system, but the biggest insurance system in the new world. There is a lot more that could be done to lower prices of health care in America instead of simply buying more insurance. This will put huge profits from borrowed government money into the insurance corporations -- what are you thinking?!!

    Joe D, Bellmore, New York

    The Editor's note says "Norman Thomas and Gus Hall . . . both quit American politics, agreeing that the Republican and Democratic parties by 1970 had adopted every plank on the Communist/Socialist . . ." 1970? The Editor should look to the paragraph above where is says that Norman Thomas died in 1968. What's the story?

    Editor, Liberty Quotes

    Sorry for the confusion. "By 1970" the Republican and Democratic parties had adopted every plank of the Communist Manifesto. Thomas died in 1968 and the Socialist Party had all but merged with the Democratic Party -- most of the Socialist delegates were in the 1968 Democratic Convention. The Communist Party fizzled out as funding from the USSR stopped.

    C Russell, San Antonio

    This quote represents the 2008 Obama Biden presidential platform.

    a.wilbourn, cedar hill, tx.

    Socialism is seductive as Anytown USA pointed out but that is because it appeals to the idealist in all of us but ignores or denies human nature. The current election has been one of class warfare induced by appealing to the greed and envy of human beings but sounding so good on the surface. For example, the idea of social justice that has become a talking point comes from the original Humanist Manifesto and one of its planks is affirmative action which seeks to balance injustices by "leveling the field" for groups who have been oppressed, etc. Those who buy in to the idea forget that those who are given a "leg up" tend to become lazy and those who are passed by because they are from the wrong group become envious and bitter leading to division. It is a wonderful tool if one wants to create division in order to attain and maintain power. Speaking of idealists, Norman Thomas, the author of this quote was a graduate of Union Theological Seminary, a conservative seminary in New York City so his idealism came from a good source, but he forget that Jesus said "the poor are with you always".

    Max, Archer Lodge, NC

    During the 1956 Presidential campaign, Norman Thomas, on national television, announced, "The Socialist Party will no longer be running a candidate for president. The Democratic Party is leading this country to Socialism much faster than we could ever hope to."

    Lars, Plainwell, Mi

    Socialism always moves left, never any other direction. In the end the concern is that it will not be society that has all the power, but rather a few elites who will consoidate power and show us all the true way. Europe is a good example of socialism that is on a path to a few elites controlling the many. They haven't completed the mission yet, but with mico-steps and giant steps and medium steps they will eventually have their way. Then it is only a matter of time once this absoute power is in place, posing as our shared friend and savior, that some very nasty and charismatic character(s) will come along and create Big Brother. It is so slow and sly, but it is happening and will happen. I doubrt there is anyway to stop it as long as idealists continue to believe that we can change human nature and achieving that is akin to teaching a duck to bark.., Maine

    I give the quote three stars as well, because as enlightening as the quote may be to some who are not paying attention, I would still really like to see an unimpeachable source for the quote that can be cross-checked and its validity assured. It's absolutely essential that if quotes such as this get published and circulated widely (as they should be), that we can check out and validate the veracity of the quote.

    Anonymous, anywhere, Illinois

    Since when is a socialist going to speak negatively about socialism? Sounds like a mythological monster to scare people away from even considering liberal views.

    Tombo, Dayton

    Look around folks, it's happening now! Read "Atlas Shrugged" Who is John Galt?

    captain352, Greenwich

    The USA is a republic, not a democracy. To quote the ancient Greeks, a democracy can never work, as soon as the people become organized enough to vote for what they want at the expense of those that have it, the entire system will break down.

    Dave Ferro, Dayton

    Communism / socialism is the opiate of the masses, not religion... For obvious reasons, neither communism, nor socialism will ever work; it's failed everywhere it's been tried.

    grampawoody, Brackettville, Texas

    So long as there are the poor and disadvantaged, those struggling to stay alive, those whom the elite see as fodder for their machine, they will have a champion able to promise solutions that can never be delivered except at the expense of those fortunate enough to have achieved the means by which they are able to survive. The elite class never gives to any cause without recognition. To provide jobs with a decent wage is beneath their dignity for it makes the worker too self-sufficient. The ruling class would prefer a feudal system wherein their needs are met by the hands of serfs. In that respect, it is no different from socialism/communism. There have been known instances of the wealthy business owner providing for the needs of his workers; but this is rare. It is more often the case of the corporate leaders stealing off the backs of the worker and consumer. I see not a socialist state emerging in this country. Everyone knows that won't work including the socialists. They only use the ideology as a means to an end. And the end is total dictatorship with everyone in the ruling class fighting for the top bunk. Personally, I think the top bunk is filled; and we on the bottom are about to be crapped on.


    I agree with DOUGMCR8. We have been outvoted on the matter. Those that vote for socialism or fascism should read Genesis 47 :13-27. Whether you believe the Bible or not, Even if Joe Blow wrote this is it would still be valid. What price would you put on your freedom? Free health care, free lunch.

    David Thomas, San Diego

    > See relevant comment posted in 2008

    Who cares, L.R., AR

    Heard it quoted differently, last part was "until one day they (the American people) will wake up and say, "where have all our freedoms gone?"." The barely literate person who blogged about fascists had better do his homework. Who were the fascists? The Germans made no bones about concealing their identity as they named their movement the Nationalist Socialist Democratic Workers Party or NSDAP (Nazis).

    Anonymous, Denver, CO

    What would like to bet that if Obama had specified "change" would be socialism, massive transfer of wealth & the destruction of "capitalism" he NEVER would have been elected. But he cleverly never gave any specifics except ending the war in Iraq & closing Gitmo.

    Jane, San Francisco

    I live in the US almost 15 years. I immigrated from Russia, and I see that America moves to the left very fast (at least at North California) and I feel how dangerous it is. The phrase of Norman Thomas reflects exactly what is going on. A lot of people are very ignorant, and they fall in love with socialist terminology very quickly. Their ignorance, lack of history knowledge (even recent history) don't allow them to see or to predict next step. They live like there is no tomorrow. Russian community in the US is more conservative basically, but unfortunately even in our community some people are ready to do the same mistakes they already did. They "Americanized" very quickly and not in the best way.



    Nelson, Hollywood, FL

    As the son of Cuban immigrants who came to the USA in 1965, I see the USA moving to the left. I am scared for my children. This election is the most vivid display, the government control of business and people through handouts aka bailout, stimulus, etc. is the proof. Perception is reality whatever mainstream media prints is what the masses will believe. Notice that after our messianic president was elected the negative reports on Iraq have pretty much stopped?

    Erik, Chico, Ca

    Fed generated boom and bust! See the writings of nobel prize winner in 1974 F.A. Hayek. We've had the economic answer for almost 70 years. Join a non-profit limited life span political party Code Red: No Fed "Red" Doesn't stand for communism. Based on Borders, Language and Culture and the Economic principles of F.A. Hayek Code Red will last for 10 years, hopefully long enough to return America to a true Democracy. Goals: Return to the gold standard, this will make our currency #1 in the world. Abolishment of Veto power for the Fed. a return to pre civil war democracy One Man One Vote. Not a Representative Democracy that deteriorates into a mass of Multiple Dictators. Before the civil war whoever lost the presidency became vice president, let's talk about it. 3 year term limits just like the old days, 3 years for everyone for everything no career politicians. 50,000 yearly income for all federal employees that's as much as most teachers, no more rich politicians. In 2000 the congress legalized the sale of home loans, FDR made it illegal in 1934 because it creates inflation in property value by allowing the banks and mortg. companies to make a profit selling your loan back and forth. This alone could crash the market according to FDR. In 1999 a banker would be sitting in federal prison for selling your loan. In 2000 it's legal, in 2008 the crash. Close to 70 years of success and in 8 years... collapse. Please contact and help us form this citizen formed party. The 6 time presidential canidate for the Socialist Party of America Norman Thomas said in a debate with his communist counter part: "I no longer need to run for president in my party, The Democratic Party has adopted our platform."

    Bill, Deland, FL

    I'm afraid that the pendulum might not ever swing back because there are too many people now who are on the government take (welfare and aid recipients included) and more coming into the country illegally who the Dems will give amnesty too along with benefits. This and organizations like ACORN will insure we become a one party system.

    keither, southwest michigan

    Where were all you people on November the 4th??? Holding your breath?? Nationalize the banks, control the salaries of the banks exec's and people in stock market, make the poor and undeserving beholden to you via government aid and more of it. Allow illegal immigrants to use the schools and health care for their "future" vote. I'm worn out, sorry.

    Alice, St. Louis

    If Norman Thomas died in 1968, can someone explain to me how could he say, in 1970, that the Democratic and Republican parties had adopted the platforms of socialism?

    Editor, Liberty Quotes

    Sorry for the confusion in the Editor's Note. Gus Hall was still alive in 1970 and BY 1970 both Gus Hall and Norman Thomas had quit politics as both the Socialist and Communist Parties had been folded into the Democratic party. Obviously, Norman Thomas quit politics earlier than 1970...

    Rick, Slidell

    If anyone doesn't think we are heading for Socialism, they're an idiot! I am not putting people down who I think are idiots. The word, "idiot" means that you are a person not educated in whatever the topic is, or whatever the skill is. I think people who don't play drums and try to play are an idiot. Since I play well enough, I can judge another person to say they are unskilled and uneducated in the instrument. You math majors out there can call me an idiot when it comes down to me trying math. It doesn't offend me to have someone who knows math call me an idiot in math. So.....I've read every book, listened to every tape and educated myself from others that know what Socialism is, and therefore, I know what causes it, and what it looks like. You people out there that are just beginning to educate yourself in knowing what Socialism is about, is in kindergarten. Therefore, you're idiots when it comes to knowing everything there is to know about Socialism. Do I make myself clear?

    Tom, Monroeville

    Dear E Archer, NYC: Your statement is near perfect. Lets think of all the great societies that have extinguished themselves: Ancient Egypt, Rome, Aztecs, Maya's, etc. What do they have in common? A people subservient to the governing body/ king, dictator and so on. I hope this country wakes the heck up and turns around before it is too late.


    Can anyone come up with a source for this alleged quotation? I don't think Thomas ever said this.

    Joe, San Jose

    The most important thing to remember when dealing with politics and the associated terms and goals of various entities is that behind it all human nature reigns supreme. The error that liberals make in their politics (or is it deliberate?) is that they do not acknowledge that nature. You can see it in the institutions that they attack - military-law/enforcement-religion, and those they bolster - welfare-universal health care- big government. Wouldn't it be great if there were no war? Wouldn't it be great if we all hugged and got along? It isn't human nature for ALL people to behave that way. There will always be conflict, injustice, and evil. Accept it. Tearing down the entities that made this country great because of some faults or past mistakes is like throwing out the baby with the bath water. What is wrong with God fearing, hard working, self reliant, self dependent people? They don't depend on a liberal political structure to take care of them and erode their morality. But welcome to the new liberal America. One full of self-entitled, shiftless, lazy, immoral, uneducated, and ignorant people.

    Eric, Ponder, TX

    We need to wake up... Here is another N. Thomas quote: "The difference between Democrats and Republicans is: Democrats have accepted some ideas of Socialism cheerfully, while Republicans have accepted them reluctantly" Source: Norman Thomas

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    Anonymous    3/29/09

    Undocumented [and fictitious] sources are valueless.

    John, Montgomery, Texas

    I really don't care who said what. As Eric put's right on!! The people who are always responsible are the people we vote for. And that, concerned citizen, is the 545 people that make up the politicos in Washington. Everyone wants to balance the budget but when was it done and for how long? Republican, Demolition,,,,er, I ment Democrat, Independent, or Socialist?

    Chief_Cabioch, Shreveport

    I see this as a Warning, and if people dont wake up, their ability to improve their own lives, live free, and prosper is going to be ended, with much of the US living in Squaler, because the US Government cant, and wont feed and clothe everyone, anymore than it's Social Security Programs, Medicaide, Medicare, and ALL other Government Programs have EVER Produced what they advertised,....and if the US citizens are that Stupid, to sit iddly by, while someone promisses security at the behest of freedoms and they give those freedoms up, for More Government Lies, then they deserve everything they get "The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men and women." - Plato

    Paul, Olive Branch, MS

    There's no source for this quote. It is entirely made up, and if you knew any actual history about the man, you would know he would have never said it.

    Jay, Apple Valley, CA

    No stars because the quotee is not important. Factual circumstances in this matter is. Both major political parties are frauds. Lies is their language. Deceit is their goal. Slavery will be the result unless terminated in the next 8 months. The current holder of the Presidental office is ineligible to hold that office because he is not a "natural born" citizen. An issue that is still being prosecuted. However, a single man cannot bring about a political change in our government. Our congress is responsible for what is taking place. They just use the President because he has the Constitutional power to sign bills into law. The reality is our current politicians are providing taxation without representation. We have gone full circle and are back where we started. We could shutdown the government in just a couple of months if all tax paying citizens would just fill out a W-4 form with sufficient exemptions to stop taxes being taken from their pay. No taxes, shortly no government ability at any level. The people who have become entitled to our tax dollars would have to fend for themselves. The education system would return to those who teach for the benefit of the students and not the money. The reality is: Government bad, free enterprise good. Politicians bad, business owners good. It is time to benefit from our 2nd Amendment to prepare for the class war that is coming. If not a class war then a race war. If not a race war then a war for our original freedom. Guns and ammunition is flying off the shelves everywhere as law abiding citizens realize they must have the ability to defend themselves. If citizens do not have guns then only the criminals will. Now, how do we get the defenders of freedom to join the populace in rebelling against the government that is taking our freedoms from us in all of the ways written about above. Our military and law enforcement are expected to defend the politicians holding us hostage and converting us to slaves. The second Tea Party is coming April 15. After that, what? Time will tell but it does not look good for freedom right now.

    mjah1660, baton rouge la

    i think our lost liberties are a perfect example of the dumbing down of america

    Lynda, Allen Prak, MI

    I agree with Mike in Norwalk. Whether you believe in prophecy or not, we will all have to hold on to our seats. Is gonna be a very bumpy ride!

    Gary, Orange County, CA

    I think this is made up. It doesn't sound like the Thomas I've read.

    Richmann, NYC

    Interestingly people associate the right with fascism when it actually grew out of the international liberal or socialist movement in europe in the 1930's. They differred in one important way. The liberals were internationalists and the fascists were nationalists or patriotic. The left dispite their protestations see patriotism as a greater problem than fascism's other qualities. And to clear up one other point, George Bush is a free trader, Obama is a one-worlder. There's a difference.

    Jean L., Dover, NH

    Sotomayer's nomination certainly tips Obama's hand. This quote is fundamental in his playbook, and she fits right in! She even placed another of Thomas' quotes in her 1976 Princeton yearbook: "I am not a champion of lost causes, but of causes not yet won." American complacency will allow them a complete victory unless we WAKE UP AMERICA!

    Brian, Hawaii

    Nostradamus has predicted this! He said that a form of slavery would be implemented in the US in its end days. People that live under Socialism are, in a way, a higher form of pet. They get fed, and comforted as long as they obey what they are told to do. Same thing with my pet dog!

    HPR, Carmel
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      HPR, Carmel    6/1/09

      Unfortunately, I believe that today many people would willingly embrace socialism. They are definitely doing so but disassociate themselves from the label "socialism". I'm afraid it will not be long before they are proud to be a socialist and even a communist. More and more people are willing to give up their freedoms in favor of security--the illusion they get from a nanny state. Socialism and communism, like most forms of government have laudatory goals--but the reality falls short. Of course the USA was founded on freedom and personal responsibility. It's first two hundred years revealed flaws but the advancements made in this nation proved that capitalism and freedom, especially when combined with personal responsibility, is an ideal that indeed works!

      ray, copperopolis

      14 million illegals.good job won!

      Joseph Stans, St. Paul, MN

      The only surprising thing in the comments is depth and breadth of ignorance. Indeed, educate your children but teach them to think critically and not spout the garbage of their parents. Yawn.

      Don T, The Heartland

      Hey Editor, saying that it's from an interview during the 1948 Presidential Campaign without saying interviewed by whom, where, and on what date -- to confirm that Norman Thomas was in that place on that date and that there was such an interviewer -- is no more believable than saying my grandmother, born in 1897, sang for the Pope. (She didn't, of course, but she was born in Italy.)

      Phil Reynolds, Edwardsburg

      With this Norman Thomas quote in mind, and the many references to our lack intellect, I recommend the reading of: "The deliberate dumbing down of America." Charlotte Thomson Iserbyt

      Washington, DC

      There is no stopping the machine as long as we have uneducated people, poor thinkers, minorities and the under-priveledged (or lazy), they will be catered to by the Democratic party. I'd suggest a two state solution, but I don't know many liberals who would want to live in a state soley comprised of liberals, it would FAIL!!!!!!! It could not survive for long. We really need to get rid of them.

      msgijoe, Oxford

      It puzzles me that so many people do not recognize that the Republican Party of George Bush was left of the Thomas's Socialist Party.

      Brent, San Bruno

      this quote is by Ronald Reagan, not Norman Thomas.

      Tombo, Fairborn

      I believe that Thomas made this statement as part of his concession speech after losing the presiential electon in the late forties. He went on to say that he was never going to run again and that the socialist party was no longer needed because we have the Democrats. Like many free societies we are yeilding to socialism. Everything socialism gets involved in is a loser; Public schools, Medcare, Medicade, Social Security and AmTrak are just a few examples. We should NEVER allow the free capitalist system to become polluted with socialism. Socialist health care is a disaster in countries where it exists. Worse yet; socialism is a stepping stone to tyranny. This is why the Founding Fathers insisted on a small central government and outlined in the constituton that which the central government is permitted. "Beware the greedy hand of governent, thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry" -Thomas Paine

      crazy j, the OC Calif

      I think the reality of our situation makes it not matter who said what or when, but we must look around us to see what the truth is in our world. And, if people are actually reading all of these comments, why do they continually have to clarify the 1968 vs 1970 comments... frustrating...

      Dave, Minneapolis

      Memo to Rick, Slidell: thanks for the comments. This is why I love reading these blogs...every now and then, out of the blue comes moronic, arrogant statements from the likes of you...You, the expert in socialism sure showed the rest of us "idiots" how truly enlightened you are. Thanks for the yuks, dude

      Guy Fawkes, Manchester, UK

      Good friend of mine put it this way: You take the King's shilling, you do the King's service. The trick, then, is for those who don't want to work for the King to figure out how to deal with each other. I believe in a day's work for a day's pay - drives me crazy to see people sitting on their glutes getting paid for nothing. Way up in these comments I saw a phrase or two that struck a chord - I help those in need when I choose to - I may not always have 'extra' money laying around (things can be tight at times for those who aren't exactly poor also), I may not think one person is as deserving of assistance as another (lost job during a draw-down vs. crack addict), and that is how societies take care of themselves. I'd like to see a personality study of the EU and U.S. politicians today with some analysis of how many of them truly have the job because of some higher sense of providing for the greater good. Too many people seem to think they are 'owed' something because they are poor, an ethnic minority, etc. Just a century ago people would wait to get married, have kids, buy a house because they couldn't AFFORD it. Self-policing social responsibility. Now take the case of the young buck who seems to think it's okay to kick out some pups every few years, with different women, tell them to live in govt housing while he quits his job and walks away (drawing unemployment INSURANCE that he'll likely never pay back or pay taxes on) and eventually break the law enough times to get a free ride (3 squares and a bunk) for the rest of his life - in prison. Oh, how RESPONSIBLE we've all become! Or the young women who accept their role in that equation as well! "They can all be reformed!" Everyone deserves an equal chance - that's what the U.S. Constitution line "all men are created equal" means to me - then how come so many seem to get 2,3,4 chances and never get removed from the gene pool? Crime rates were pretty low back in the days of public executions, and rarely did anyone care if it was your first murder/rape/arson/robbery...they just knew you weren't going to get a chance at a second! (plus, if you demonstrated those awkward behaviors at a young enough age, you likely got removed before you could breed more little freaks...) This whole argument above only exists because of the bureaucracy that has been created around the world by those who don't want to strike out on their own and make something of and for themselves. For an interesting look at what could happen to our niche societies, read World War Z by Max Brooks. As some of those commenting above have noted, (it may not be zombies, of course) even more (potentially internal to western govts) conflict appears to be on the horizon. Charismatic leaders arise when a population is ready to listen - Ben Franklin, Robespierre, Hitler, Castro, Pol Pot, Bin Laden - love them or hate them, if no one agreed with them, they would have no following...

      Anonymous, PILOT POINT TEXAS


      bill phil, pompano bch.,fl

      what a great forum. people on both sides.the 1st amend. makes it all possible.

      Jeff, Ft. Worth, Tx

      What he said about socialism is absolutely true! Most Americans choose "liberalism" not knowing it's just another word for "socialism" or "collectivism". "Individualism" is taught in the Bible. You see it also in the Declaration Of Independence and the U.S. Constitution.

      Mike, Des Moines, Iowa

      I believe America is at a crossroads where generations of Americans have been socially engineered and manipulated through the government indoctrination centers (public schools) deliberately dumbing down generation after generation so America falls toward the bottom of the international list for academic achievement and Phil Reynolds I have that book you recommended in my library is excellent (The Deliberate Dumbing down of America) an ignorant population is easy to manipulate, the media and Hollywood have played their part in the psychological conditioning to reject the philosophy of individual freedom and liberty that our founders gave us in favor of a society who has forgotten how to do for themselves with the spirit of self-reliance and their community, but have become totally dependent on the government which is to say OPM (other People's Money). A prime example is Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans, neighboring states were hit just as hard but their people got up off their back sides and helped each other to clean up and rebuild I believe they have at least three days to evacuate but didn't, fleets of buses were submerged under floodwaters that could have been used to evacuate people. The American people now find themselves in the place where they elected a president they knew absolutely nothing about other than a feel-good vote to dissuade their white guilt and his promise of "change," if they had taken the time to research his background they would've discovered he sought out associations with self proclaimed communist radicals i.e. Van Jones and blatantly anti-American and racist like Rev. Wright whose teaching he sat under for 20 years and Louis Farrakhan who Rev. Wright honored. I am seeing signs that people are waking up to this quantum leap into national Socialism and I think the 2010 elections will be bad year for incumbents, our country needs to get back under the limitations of the Constitution that's were most off our problems are created in the extraconstitutional crap that politicians do to buy votes with, that goes for both parties! I can't believe the guy from the UK lumped Benjamin Franklin in with murderers row how incongruous, still feeling a little bitter over losing the colonies?

      Lee, Kansas City

      I have known of this quote for some time now. I became interested in politics at an early age and have watched our country give in to socialist thinking at an ever- increasing rate that really seemed to pick up steam in the mid 1980's with the ridiculous politically correct movement. Having traveled the world while in the military, and having lived in a few countries that are socialist and fascist states, I have seen the results of socialism first hand. There is a reason my recent ancestors risked their lives escaping from mother Russia. Under socialism, communism, and fascism you have an elite few that come into power by convincing the masses that they know how to make decisions concerning your life better than you can. Once they have the masses believing the crap that spews out of their mouths, the masses are left with food they cannot afford, utilities they cannot pay for to heat their homes and looking for jobs that are no longer there, because the government does not create jobs, the private sector does. Warren, olathe; Archer, NYC; Lars, Plainwell; Jane, SF; Anonymous, Pilot Point; Mike, Des Moines; I beg all of you to continue to try and educate as many people as possible to the dangers that the American Socialist Party(Liberals) bring to the table. As for those on here that don't see anything wrong with socialism or communism, or fascism, well, why don't you grab the people in this country that believe like you do and go live in Russia, Cuba, Venezuela or anywhere else. If you do not want to do that then I suggest you finally start to think for yourselves and educate yourselves a little better than the current liberal education system we have in this country that in my opinion is the biggest part of the problem.

      Neil, Sydney, Australia

      I fear it goes even further than not knowing how it happened. Without the ability now to question or even just think, due both to the (intended?) distractions of all the bread and circuses of the modern electronic world plus the terrible dumbing-down of education, there is a whole world without any knowledge that it has even happened!

      Katrina, Los Angeles

      I believe quote is actually 1944.

      Mark, Alice Springs, OZ

      Take your pick: "All systems are capitalist. It's just a matter of who owns and controls the capital -- ancient king, dictator, or private individual. We should properly be looking at the contrast between a free market system where individuals have the right to live like kings if they have the ability to earn that right and government control of the market system such as we find today in socialist nations." --Ronald Reagan "Jesus was the first socialist, the first to seek a better life for mankind." - -Mikhail Gorbachev What do I think? Basically ALL governments wish to control us .. they'll turn the internet OFF if we get too much power and rise up against them! People Power. VIVA!! Now, there's socialism!!

      Karl, DeKalb, IL

      As a public school teacher of ten years, I take great offense at characterizing my life's work as "government indoctrination". This is absolutely a false idea and typical of the scare-tactics flying around from ALL sides since at least last summer. Get some critical brain cells America and WAKE UP...BOTH parties are trying and succeeding at manipulating you! (although one is doing a much better job as of late...I won't try to convince anyone which one...)

      Stosh, San Diego

      I can't believe some of the comments I'm reading here.I guess that those people who believe that everything government is Socialism, they will not accept Social Security or Medicare because they are government run. So all you loudmouths, put your money where your mouth is. Tell me you refuse Social Security and Medicare

      Anonymous, Metaline Falls, WA

      excuse me, STOSH, but we cannot refuse Social Security or Medicare. They are MANDATORY! Enrollment in Medicare is mandatory. Our wages are taken from us for Social Security automatically, without consent. Then, if we want our money back from the government that has taken it from us, we must "apply" for it, only to recieve less than we have contribted in the first place! If I am not mistaken, it is illegal to purchase private insurance once one is enrolled in Medicare, and if Medicare is so great, why did Congress even see fit to introduce "supplemental" programs. If it was comprehensive why would anyone seek to purchase "supplemental" insurance? If the citizens were allowed to opt out of these programs what do you think would happen to them? Immediate and catastrophic failure. That is precisely why they are mandatory in the first place. and they are definitive failures. You are absolutely correct that most of the people writnig comments here would refuse to participate in these programs if given the choice, but we are not given the choice, that is the point!

      Shar, Albuquerque

      As far as I know the "government" is not offering "supplemental" have to buy it from an insurance company. Also, if not for SS, I know alot of older American's that would be homeless. I am tired of big corporations and their greed..I think all PEOPLE should have health care, a place to live, food to eat and an education...if "socialism" can give that to us...then I'm all for it...

      Richard Robie, Paradise Valley, Nevada

      Medicare-resited it in the 60's. Now it is here, I planned my retirement around it and now the out of control govt is going to remove all or part. This Government, regardless of Party no longer represents the people. 2010 is upon us. Vote them all out, institute term limits. We the people must take our country back.

      William Tatum, Flagstaff Arizona Come get me bitches

      Okay to all of you retards. SOCIALISM AND FASCISM ARE ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM. Its like saying we are succumbing to Republican Democrats. Its a fucking oxymoron. For those of you college rejects who don't know what fascism is Fascism is the State and Corporations joining forces. Generally its Big Business controlling the government or the government acting in the best interests of business. Socialism is the EXACT POLAR FUCKING opposite. Socialism has to do with using tax money to pay health care, educate the next generation, take care of old people, and do other things that lower classes can't do for themselves. This country is closer to Fascism than Socialism. 700 billion dollars was given to whom? Main st? No cause that would actually be Socialism no we gave it to multinational corporations making us.... you got it u fucktards it makes us Fascist. If you weren't watching fucking Fox news/msnbc/cnn (THEY ARE ALL THE SAME) you retards might actually know something instead of being the laughing stock of the ENTIRE FUCKING WORLD. Get educated and then lets debate but until you understand the difference between your sphincter and your mouth shut the fuck up.

      Mike, Norwalk
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      Mike, Norwalk William Tatum, Flagstaff Arizona Come get me bitches 1/11/22

      William, it is obvious you are a result of ecclesiastical seminaries (government school). You might want to find a re-education center or course to adequately express yourself without the vulgarity  especially when you are so ultimately and obviously wrong. Socialism is: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership of all property, religion and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods. Socialism's differing administrations and implementations is that which distinguishes "fascism" (corporatism) from "communism" and other illicit forms of collectivism (Socialism). By example: all corporations are extensions of the State (the State defining creation and by enforcement owns everything while regulating all production means and distribution of goods). At communism, the State simply does all that the State does through corporations in its own name. The Chinese Communist Party utilizes fascism within its administrations for what it speculates to be the most prosperous to the State.

      Bob Volker, Fairview, Tn.

      Public services do not arise without coercion. They all have to be paid for and the funds are raised by compulsion (taxes). "Socialists confuse 'society' with 'government.' Society is a blessing, and it is from society that public services arise without coercion. It is when we force our good intentions on those who do not share them and indeed live fine without them that socialism and society draw the battle lines. The lure of socialism is the lie that government can provide for us -- it can't and it doesn't. WE provide for ourselves AND our government."

      U.S. Soldier, Libby

      Over one hundred million dead people could agree that Socialism and Communism does not work. Arm Yourselfs

      bbb, tx
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        bbb, tx    11/19/09

        "A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement." Thomas Jefferson....couldn't have put it better myself.

        bbk, anytown, tx

        "A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement." Thomas Jefferson.. ...enough said.

        Roderick, St. Landry

        Great explanation of the Democratic party's goals.

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        frank    12/27/09

        I remember Nikita Kruschev saying the same thing: "The American people will not accept communism overnight, we will feed it to you a little at a time untill one day you will wake up and realise that you have it". Well, it's here.

        Paco, Juno, Milwaukee, Wi

        If we don't wake up and really take a look at what is being spoon fed to us from this Government we will eventually have all of our freedoms taken away. Just take a look at all of the freedoms which have been taken away from us in the last year, we have three more years for all of us to endure... Get out and spread the word, even to the most left winged.

        Anonymous, Youngstown, OH

        In the entire history of humanity, capitalism is still the best system. Why else would Communist China embrace capitalism other than to get ahead? Socialism didn't work for the USSR, and China learned from the Soviet Union's mistake. The US dollar put the Chinese astronaut into space. Everything in life is truly a bell-shaped curve. Human nature ensures that even if we have a guaranteed income for everyone, some will always take from others, increasing one and lessening the other. In the very basest form of capitalism, Captain John Smith stated, "he who will not work shall not eat." The survival of little Jamestown depended on that, but today in such a huge society, many find his statement untrue with our wonderful social programs. "A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." (George Bernard Shaw) That's why the Democratic Party wants to grow their support base with amnesty for illegals. Donald Duck

        Elizabeth, Essex

        please listen to Ronald Reagan on You Tube against socialized medicine

        sandi, endicott, ny

        wow! Really where were all you people last november? how did we get to this point? whether this quote be real or not isnt even the point now...hold on to your wallets if you are the middle is gonna be a wild ride! I can only hope that this guy does only one term. my parents came here from italy in 1956 to have the freedom to work and not have every aspect of there lives controlled by the government...they remember mussalini and hitler all to well! It is sad that so many have been blinded by Obama and his trickery. we need to STOP electing carreer politicians as someone has already stated above, a movement needs to start NOW so we get these people out of office int the upcoming elections. I am ready to go to washington for a good old fashioned protest march (peacefully of course) and throw these bums out! there is always hope.

        Bybee, Texas

        I have one comment TERM LIMITS !!!!!! Push your representatives for term limits at all levels of government. You realize that most of these congress men and women were elected by peope that had never voted before and just checked vote straight Democrat ticket? I think the option to vote straight democratic ticket should be taken from the ballots. Yes, this is what happened. I think when politicians do things to push people to vote other than a TV add is committing treason to this country and voter fraud. America has slowly become a Socialist nation since the great deperession, these liberals are very, very foxy in their approach and their resolve is relentless. These are the people that can't stand to see an individual at the top of the heap at any level of society. Liberals take advantage of those who are in dire straights to push their agenda. Make no mistake it is a total agenda and not just "feeling your pain". Did you know that the #1 employer in the world is the American Federal Government? Do you understand what that means? It means that everyone that is not a governemnt employee is paying for those employees meaningless job to help make the politicians look good. That's it ... a legacy .. look what I did ! Caring for you is not their agenda. The constitution tells us as the people that at anytime when the governement stops representing the (all) people that we have the right to dissolve it at anytime we choose. I suggest a national vote to do exactly this ... wipe out everything that has been added to the constition or is not in the constitution and start over. Clena the slate have a special election to relect all government officials and vote in term limits. My question is how do we get this done now !?!?!

        Bybee, Texas

        Sorry, I do not think the Military is a meaningless job .. I want to strike these government employees from my comment because I beleive they are really the only Federal employees that are constitutional. I support our troops 100%.

        Bubba, Dayton, Oh

        Preamble to the Constitution: We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. Notice phrase 'promote the general welfare'. Well that is just what our Congress does for us. Nothing to do with socialism or capitalism. Enjoy America and quit bitching and work hard.

        RobertFB, Everyplace, USA

        Phony quotes, like this one and the cited by "frank" fraudulent Krushchev "doses of Socialism" quote created by the John Birch Society in 1960, are a hoax on the public. I agree with what Montana Senator stated before Congress at the time: "Whoever created this quotation and...knowing it to be spurious, nevertheless disseminate it, are cut from the same cloth as Communists and Fascists." Consider this, those who say you don't care if the quote is real, and consider the way you regard its source here.

        Fritz, Big "D"

        So although the party disbanded the people with the beliefs didn't get exported once they left the "Socialist" party. Now where do you think you will find all of these people today!?!? The Democrats are quite a melting pot aren't they!!!

        J-MO, Miami
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        J-MO, Miami    4/1/10

        Liberalism, socialism,communism are all words that have been softened with the passing of time. Where I live socialism is an evil word, period. I decend from citizens of other nations. Nations that have suffered dearly for their ignorance. And all have paid in blood and tears for inviting leaders with their collective solutions during trying times. All resulting in the inslavement of my family, and eventual involuntary deportation from there native lands. Now the day has come when America has a choice. It choses to eat the apple in the garden of Eden and now our children will pay the consiquences for our decision.

        Randy, Twain Harte

        Class Envy is breaking the commandment of ■Thou Shalt Not Covet.■ It is evil to perpetuate anger or even sadness in people because they don■t have as much as someone else. Desiring something you are not willing to work for tempts us to enter the realm of cheating, theft and, taken to the extreme...murder and war. How can anyone believe that forcibly spreading the wealth has anything to do with fairness and goodness?

        Julia, Hayden

        Jesus was a Socialist, read the bible, Look what capitalism has produced greedy NEO-NAZI type republicans

        Anonymous, ohio

        90% of the world world benefit from socialism. Im not sure that everyone on here knows what socialism is. Socialism is the working class controling the means of production, not a central body controling the means. True, it seems to be the case most of the time that socialist structured politics turn into the monsters they despise,but this does not have to be the case. representative democracy is part of the problem. socialist ideas coupled with a direct democracy is the solution. I share views with some of the right in the sense that we dont need a central governing body, that makes decisions for us, but to go against socialism, the chances are, is to go against your own well being.

        brewster, ohio

        to the fellow from youngstown; nicely done. to justify greed by implying that it is "human nature." human nature is the opposite. the thing that separates us from other animals more than the ability to walk up right, (which you probably can not), is a sense of community and compassion that has made it possible for us to survive this long. most of the time the right decisions are not the ones that are the easiest or the ones that bring immediate satisfaction or the ones that make your pockets fat. they are right because they are right, and most people know right from from wrong, but, sadly, the right choice is usally more difficult and its easier to make excuses like " its human nature". another thing, are you native american? no. well then shut up about illegals. its everyones land now. maybe try putting your self in there shoes, and ask your self what the right decision is.

        Anonymous, Main Street

        Norman Thomas never said this. Doesn't anybody fact check anymore?

        Glen, NC
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          Glen, NC    8/18/10

          This is a bogus quote. No documentation of ANY kind has ever shown that this statement was made, publicly or privately. It was first used by Reagan when he was still an actor, and he later admitted not having a source for the quote. Amazing what people will accept as gospel without even checking for authenticity.

          Nicholas, Dallas

          This quote was never said. Please look at this page. Frankly no one has come up with a source for this, it only seems to be perpetrated by folk trying to play the socialism card over and over again.

          Otto, Maize KS

          People who use this quote wouldn't know socialism if it bit their ass.

          D. Wakefield, Jupiter, FL

          Snopes is a big supporter of Obama, also Snopes said qoute: "probably false" it did not say false

          hell should, saint clair


          Sean, Alabama

          Found another quote by Norman as quoted by the Princeton University Press in 1978 "I've failed -- doubtless to your general satisfaction! -- in the chief purpose of my career. That was to bring about, or help bring about, in our country a more realistic political alignment which might give us two major responsible parties, one of them democratic socialist in principle whatever its name."

          Mike, New York

          There is a difference between Democratic Socialism(most strongly practiced in Northern Europe) and Totalitarian Socialism(aka Communism as in China and the Soviet Union). Democratic Socialist nations have the highest qualities of life in the world. Communist nations are pure evil.

          Charlie, Iowa

          Socialism is liberalism that has been allowed to go to its farthest extent. Obama's first 18 months in office -- Government takeover of General Motors. Government takeover of Chrysler. Government takeover of a majority shareholder stake in Citibank. Government takeover of the student loan program. Government takeover of the nation's healthcare system. Notice a trend?

          Cheeseriali, Hungary

          But that would have required an existing rail authority (like Amtrak) to participate. With Amtrak out of the picture, the coalition doesn't have enough time to come up with another proposal to meet LaHood's April 4 deadline. In most countries, such as the United Kingdom, the distinction between a tramway and a railway is precise and defined in law. In the US and Canada such street railways are mostly referred to as trolleys. The key difference between a railroad and a trolley system is the latter running primarily on public streets, whereas trains have a right of way separated from the public. Often the US style interurban and modern light rail are confused with a trolley system, as it too may run onto the street for short or medium long sections. In some languages the word tram also refers to interurban and light rail -style networks, in particular Dutch. B-double In the United Kingdom Section 83(1) of the Railways Act 1993 defines "train" as follows: The Northwest Territories allows LCVs of up to 31 m (100 ft) in length. These vehicles are restricted to specific destinations in Hay River and Yellowknife. LCVs do not operate north of Yellowknife.

          Anonymous, Tulsa

          Americans are beginning to see the light......lets hope they can stop all this before the Electricity gets turned off, because under the guise of Socialism and Liberalism they have tried to spend us into Prosperity

          Mike, Denver

          Although this quote has been attributed to Norman Thomas it is thought that it was actually a quote from Upton Sinclair in a letter sent to Thomas. And as been added in the notes, it wasn't just the liberals he spoke of, but both parties.

          Anonymous, Madison WI

          Mike New York, which of these European utopias are you talking about with the highest qualities of life? Would that be rioting Britain? Broke Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Ireland...? I could go on but I'm just curious.

          Anonymous, Missouri

          Some very interesting comments here. In 1948, Norman Thomas stated that there was no need for him to run for President again as the Democratic Party had adopted their platform. The Republican Party has always been about big business and big government. So, you have Socialist Democrats on one side and Fascist Republicans on the other since the United States government is a corporation (28 USC 3002 (15)(A)). It doesn't matter who you vote for to be President because your vote is only a "suggestion". The electoral college, which is made up of politicians, are the ones that actually vote for the President and thus, they vote for who THEY want in office. A prime example of this is the 1st and 2nd Corrupt Bargains, 2000 election, and the 2004 election. The lesser of 2 evils is still evil! America is still a British colony (we lost the war of 1812 thus why the British Accreditation Regency [BAR Associations] runs our court system. Canada and Australia also have BAR Associations). The United States (corporation) was foreclosed on via the Emergency Banking Act of 1933 and went into foreign receivership and declared bankrupt and insolvent. Are you a United States citizen? If so, you've just declared yourself an enemy of the government via the Trading with the Enemy Act! To go one step further, every federal law that's ever been passed since 1861 has been do so by an Executive Order Congress. Seven (7) states walked out of the Constitutional Congress in 1861 leaving it Sine Die (without a quorum) and a defunct Congress was ordered back into session by Lincoln. Lincoln was a Marxist and Karl Marx visited the White House when Lincoln was in office on at least 2 occasions. Socialism in America today leads back to 1861. Fascism in America leads back to the District of Columbia Organic Act of 1871 (which was an act of treason by a de facto Congress). The lie has to keep going and like Joeseph Goebbels said, If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State. If we live in a corporate-controlled Democratic Republic, then we live in a fascist ('fascism' defined by Mussolini as being a corporate government) Socialist country. One needs to look no further than the Democratic Republic of Germany (Socialist East Germany) to see the truth in that last sentence. When you know what forms of government a 'Democracy' and a 'Republic' are, you will know that when they appear together as 'Democratic Republic' it's an oxymoron.

          Mark, Wichita

          This "quote" (yes, I just quoted quote) is so believable because the premise and crux of the matter is absolutely true. However, I am against using fake quotes to make any argument for the truth. It only serves to discredit your case, which isn't doing the Conservative cause any favors. There is enough actual verifiable truth available to discredit liberalism (now progressivism), rather than to resort to referencing potential lies to get to the truth. If someone can supply a verifiable footnote to the source for this "quote", then please post it... everywhere.

          Scott Bremner, Trevor

          I think the quote is make believe.

          Butch Lyons, Hesperia

          True, & quite correct!!

          Paul Jalinsky, Carmel

          While I have no doubt that Norman Thomas WOULD say this, does anyone have the actual source of this quote? The only source I ever see is essentially that it is from a 1948 interview...but the interview source is never revealed. Here's a good one from Upton Sinclair: "The American People will take Socialism, but they won't take the label. I certainly proved it in the case of EPIC. Running on the Socialist ticket I got 60,000 votes, and running on the slogan to 'End Poverty in California' I got 879,000. I think we simply have to recognize the fact that our enemies have succeeded in spreading the Big Lie. There is no use attacking it by a front attack, it is much better to out-flank them."

          Anonymous, Tinsel Town

          We are not socialist in our constitution - no one "does things together" I can do things better than you can and I am a better thinker and creative than you - I want my inventions, fruits of my labor, creativity etc for myself and my family and do not want to share with a druid. When you realize that we have our own mind then socialism literally falls apart because you have to agree with it and its practice is the disingenuous nature of socialism, not the word association that people disagree with. Socialism is a proven failure time and time again - Plus its a disgusting means of controlling people according to an unequal standard. You have to be stupid to believe this socialist crap. A child can discern its worthlessness. But idiots seem to suck it up.

          U. S. INFANTRY, Spokane , Wa.

          Former Russian Communist Dictator Nikita Krushchev said of America.... " We will destroy you from within!"

          Broken American

          It has come to pass, today. June 28, 2012

          Bob Roman, Chicago, IL

          Norman Thomas most certainly did NOT say this. I think you will find that Ronald Reagan DID say this, with an attribution to Norman Thomas.

          Anonymous, Worcester

          Secure the United State borders; deliver my mail. That's all I ask. Is it too much?

          Publius, Branford

          Probably Thomas did not say this: However, it appears to be an accurate statement... historically and predictive.

          WTF?, who cares?

          The USA is a representative democracy. It's not necessarily a form of government that's characterized in writing from ancient times, because it wasn't around when the great philosophers made their breakdown of types of government. We're a democracy in that people vote; however, the people are represented by 435 reps, 100 senate officers, and 3 officials of DC, totaling 538 individuals that ultimately elect the president. The popular vote literally means nothing, other than the fact that it's a more accurate representation of the country's VOTING population's desires. Basically, there's no real way to say where this form of government aligns, because the minds that decided that PURE democracy is the worst form are dead now, and have been for a long time. Clearly it's not the greatest, because it always ends up as a huge battle between two major parties, with little pips from various other ones. Maybe if people stopped complaining about the presidents, like they stole the office and just act without approval (clearly not the case, because of a system called checks and balances--a system that was part of the constitution from the start), and accepted the fact that the people collectively voted for who they wanted, and their respective representatives voted according to what they saw as the view of the people. If your views didn't come out on top, none of your state's electoral votes went to your party. It's all-or-nothing based on majority, so if you want to complain, complain to/about your representative(s), not to the president, your sheep friends, or anyone else who is likely to heed your call without making their own decision. The system is flawed, but it's flawed because many people realize that "a person is smart, but people are stupid." It basically means that mob mentality is about as close to fail as it gets. Considering how much and how often we disagree with one another, based almost purely on political stance/viewpoint, I would rather have votes' power be in the hands of someone else. If people were all individually held responsible for their voting actions, if something goes wrong ONLY due to their elected official's misdoing, they would HAVE to own up to it. By having multiple levels of officials on the path from representative to president, there's a LOT of room for the fault to get placed elsewhere, but never on the people that voted the way they did (or didn't). A president can't be elected if no one votes, period. If you're really upset, try talking to your peers about it, instead of throwing the hate and rage around aimlessly. If you don't always get what you want, stop acting like a child: stop bitching and moaning, and DO something about it, instead of throwing words around. Actions make a bigger dent, but their impact lasts MUCH longer, so remember that when you're trying to make up for actions, as opposed to manipulating rhetoric to get out of word feuds.

          WTF?, who cares?

          Besides, so what if a proposed bill has socialistic origins? Is it really that bad to have bits from other political/legal/belief/etc. systems integrated into your life? You're basically forced to in the work sphere, school sphere, and just about every single sphere, except for the at home/personal sphere. Whether you PERSONALLY believe that diversity is necessary, and often BENEFICIAL (as you can see things from other perspectives, possibly allowing for more/better solutions to overcome problems), or not, you're all but forced to concede and/or accept diversity, if you actually believe in equal rights. Equal rights were fought for, have been fought for throughout our country's history, continue to be fought for now, and SHOULD be fought for in the future. People that didn't know you, hold the same beliefs, like you personally or morally, share any interests whatsoever with you, BUT THEY FOUGHT FOR YOU TO BE FREE AND HAVE THE SAME RIGHTS AS THEY, AND ANYONE ELSE, had at the time. If you don't want to continue that pledge, and you refuse to do something willingly because you don't agree with it, for something as meaningless as its ORIGIN, you should probably move somewhere where the general population is as xenophobic and ethnocentric as you are. If something helps more people than it hurts, and can help the country to find its footing, achieve a base of balance, and even allow for the potential to move forward, who cares what its origin is? If you want to keep moving backwards, sticking to things that worked in the past, ONLY because they situationally, temporally, etc. worked in the past, IGNORING that times, people, populations, diversity has/have changed, then by all means, please go back to the stone age alone. Don't take everyone else back with you because YOU can't accept the changes of the recent past and present. GTFO, and leave the ones that want to make it better for everyone, regardless of any differences, to their work.

          RM, Milwaukee, WI

          Ms. Hayden, Jesus was not a socialist. He preached neighbors helping neighbors and love and respect of your fellow man-he did not ask the Roman government or the Jewish aristocracy for hand-outs. Please re-read your Bible.

          Anonymous, anywhere usa

          i agree with all said. but our freedom is soon to be gone when the lib party took God out of everything. our children have been taught in school not about our history but that the boston tea party was terrorism acts. our children and grandchildren with the government in our school's the children do not know but what is brain washed into some are schools the luch room police take home lunches away make the children eat m.o. mandtory meals.and, tell me who wants their children or grandchildren taught allah is the all mighty god?!when the government puts its nose in our every day life and demand more and more out of us... this is not fredom. we are not free but the governments slave already. when our rights were take little by little even starting w/ cigs to camera's every where. those cameras do not stop a child from being kidnapped or keep us does show what people do from day to day and at red lights you get tickets if you run one no matter if it changes while you are under it which isn't running a red light.every thing the government is doing is controling us how much taxes but they can take two different vacations on our taxes no matter how our country is hurting. when you come to america you get free everything on our tax money that we work for so the government can waste how they want but are they paying debts back do we have to? and they got where they are by our votes or at least someones vote.but they all got a pay raise we get more taxes to pay for what ever the government wants and are we even safe. or are their any in the government that even knows what they are doing except to get WHAT THEY WANT.. meme meme and blame it on someone other than own wrong doing's.

          John55, Brandon MS

          Snopes says he never quoted it. But it is what is happeining

          Bob Marshall, Spartanburg

          " We can't expect the American people to jump from capitalism to communism, but we can assist their elected leaders in giving them small doses of socialism until on day they awaken to find they have communism." Nikita Khrushchev. 1957 Khrushchev announced to the people of the United States by television that the USSR would never fire one shot at the United States. It would fall from the inside. we discussed this with our Civics teacher in class. He believed China was more of a threat to the United States at the time.

          gobblekitty, nashville, TN

          Where is the source for this quote?

          Mike, Pleasant Hill, Iowa

          Nothing irritates the liberal/progressive mind more than the truth, as their extensive comments demonstrate with this quote.
          Those that insists that this quote is not true I would invite you to contemplate the words "self evident."
          If you favor socialism /communism I also invite you to leave and go to a socialist country and live and practice what you preach and leave those of us who value liberty in peace. But, of course you won't!

          bruski, naples FL


          Mary - MI
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            Mary - MI    12/16/14

            anonymous - Get a clue and attempt to do your own research with your handy-dandy computer.........
            "Wednesday, October 12, 2011
            Norman Thomas, a U.S. Socialist Party candidate for president, once famously said, “The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But, under the name of ‘liberalism’, they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened.”
            Norman Thomas -


            The interstate highway system is a socialist undertaking and most everyone is really happy to use it. No capitalist organization or design or funding went into building it.

            Hypocrisy much?

            Ed Jobsman, San Diego

            Check this out:
            It was Upton Sinclair in a letter to Thomas and it wasn't phrased in as above. Here's the real text:
            "The American People will take Socialism, but they won't take the label. I certainly proved it in the case of EPIC. Running on the Socialist ticket I got 60,000 votes, and running on the slogan to 'End Poverty in California' I got 879,000. I think we simply have to recognize the fact that our enemies have succeeded in spreading the Big Lie. There is no use attacking it by a front attack, it is much better to out-flank them."

            Liberals may not be able to handle the truth, but I think they find misinformation just as annoying as the rest of us.

            Glaser Burkhardt III, Tocoma, Washington

            Norman Thomas never said anything about the Republicans only the Democrats adopting the Socialist Party Platform. Senator Eugene MaCarthy is laughing in his grave over his being right all along.

            Ron, Louisa, Va

            “The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of “liberalism,” they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened. I no longer need to run as a Presidential Candidate for the Socialist Party. The Democratic Party has adopted our platform.” ― Norman Mattoon Thomas

            Ronw13, OR
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            Ronw13, OR    1/23/18

            Political philosophical foundations with ancient doctrinal standings within belief systems. The top water and undercurrent of religions. Threskeia and Threskos religious practices. The contrast is set forth between that which unreal and deceptive, and the "pure" religion which consist in visiting the fatherless and widows in their afflictions. helping ones neighbor through freewill. Threskeia religious government thrives through officious parades of seeming humility. knowing it is the Threskos belief of the masses, and that sentiment they seek to move for favor. Liberty far removed by force in the USA for over 150 years. Without the crystalized form of Liberty through Secured Property rights, Chophshiy liberty, there is none. Without manumission from slavery, Eleutheria liberty, there is none. Without Aletheia Truth, the manifested veritable essence of a matter, not merely ethical but in all its fullness and scope, there is no Apeleutheros liberty, access to the presence of God our Creator. Without Semnotes honesty there is no venerableness, dignity within leadership and oversight. The United States of America now in 2018 has hope, yet being in flux and at odds with doctrines of servitude and liberty ordained. One must remember, even in America, not all were at Liberty, nor should all be now. God Bless and Semper Fi

            Patrick Henry, Red Hill

            Occasionally, even a deluded and self deluded socialist can be relied upon to render reality in its light.

            Robert, Somewhere in the US

            WOW! The biggest welfare recipients by far are the wealthy (corporate elite), government employees, politicians, and of course, the MIC (the biggest) who are also the biggest polluters and users of oil. The US has turned itself into a self gratification monster and it's time for change (big time). Otherwise, you will all sink into the mire you created.. Greed will turn America into a socialist government as unchecked capitalism NEVER works. As in Rome, without the people government will fall.

            Robert, Somewhere in the US

            Some really excellent comments above - obviously some have done their homework. but, the quote should really read: under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of capitalism, until one day America will be a fascist nation, without knowing how it happened."

            E Archer, NYC

            My goodness, Robert, you have demonstrated the double-think required to hold such a view. Good luck with that! Are you for national democratic socialism? So were the Nazis -- hence their acronym meaning national democratic socialism. I'll ask again, is Venezuela more your cup of tea? Or how about Cuba? Or are you talking about a Norway-type of socialism? Or how about Russia, aren't they exactly what you have been asking for?

            Get it through your head: America was not founded upon socialism, or even capitalism or democracy, it was founded upon the natural born rights of humankind to protect themselves from being ruled by others. Up until that point, every person was considered the property of the Crown, with rights and privileges determined by the King/Czar/Fuehrer with a subservient parliament (if any).

            The socialist millionaire class merely replaces the current aristocracy in whatever its form -- still living off the taxing of production, labor, and property without limit. The Clinton's, Pelosi, Gore, and many, many other Democrats have made fortunes from their political influence -- none of them make anything to sell, but they apparently make a lot of money making speeches that no one can stay awake for. Insider trading, land deals, real estate deals, energy deals, carbon taxes, all matter of corporatism with the full support of Wall Street -- this is the standard profile of a Democrat career politician.

            Robert, Somewhere in the US

            Archer really, you do go on... I'm not going to reply, though I will say you are totally mistaken in your thinking - the present system will only explode and I sincerely hope you will be safe.
            I do not believe in labels - obviously you do and hence your attempt to besmirch anyone with a contrary view point. Three of the first five President's where known Liberals, so you could say America was founded on liberal principles - perhaps you should look it up! sorry, I did promise not to reply so I will stop.

            E Archer, NYC

            Robert, you will not reply to an honest dialogue, but do in fact reply and make further assertions without any argument. The typical 'liberal' response to a straight question about what you stand for and how you would do it is inevitably considered an insult -- "I will not dignify that question with a response" essentially. You do not believe in labels? ;-) That's rich coming from a self-declared gay atheist liberal progressive. You are identity-obsessed with a grand focus on reinventing language to suit. If you do not believe in labels then I suggest you stop using them ...

            Robert, Somewhere in the US

            Archer, you must learn to be polite and not always using derogatory verbiage - it doesn't become you. Just stick to the argument without abusive rhetoric.

            E Archer, NYC

            It is a common tactic of a losing debate to require the opposing speaker to use different words rather than address their content. You have merely tried to claim moral high ground. Again rather than proffering your argument, you speak only to deride rather than enlighten. I do not think you have an argument at all.

            TKelley, Kansas City

            You might check Politifact & Snopes on this. They both agree this is not a quote from Norman Thomas. Reagan, according to his biographer, was "vulnerable to using bogus quotes". Cannon also states Reagan could not document where he found the quote. This would be an example of right wing "fake news".

            Hoot Gibson, Columbus, OH
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            Hoot Gibson, Columbus, OH TKelley, Kansas City 2/25/21

            Born stupid and leftist, TKelly, is no way to go through life, only a fool would use Snopes or PoliticFake as a real source...

            Bruce, America

            Of course, every quote that indicts a leftist, or where a leftist tells the truth about the real intention of liberalism, is reliably declared by the left to have been a forgery. LOL. 

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            Breaker    2/23/21

            @TKelley, Politifact, and Snopes are left-wing propaganda rags and are not reliable sources. List some texts proving your points pre-1960s. If not, you're just spouting propaganda.

            The problem with the modern left-wing is that they forget that Norman Thomas wasn't the first to say something similar about liberalism while he was alive about liberalism. President Ronald Reagan also said that, "Just what is fascism? Fascism is private control of private business. Isn't that what liberals want?" He said that in a 60 Minutes interview.

            Hoot Gibson, Columbus, OH

            Exactly Breaker...

            Fredrick William Sillik, Anytown

            Fascism is neglecting your responsibilities. Socialism is addressing your responsibilities. Couldn't be more distinguishable.

            Fredrick William Sillik, Anytown

            With time and patience the Socialist will teach America and the world Socialism.

            Fredrick William Sillik, Anytown

            There is nothing perverted, sick, or negative in regard to Socialism.  Socialism is simply the road to humanity through realizing the strength and beauty of our authentic social relations.

            Mike, Norwalk
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            Mike, Norwalk Fredrick William Sillik, Anytown 1/11/22

            Fredrick, please tell the audience here what "socialism" is; NOT simply what is does OR; what the end result is intended to be.

            Fredrick William Sillik, Anytown

            Socialism is reality. Being a real friend, not a fair whether buddy with ulterior motives. Being a real brother, not a pseudo brother.  Being a real father, uncle, son, cousin, employee. Cementing these relations and continue to develop these relations to reach the human ideal.

            Fredrick William Sillik, Anytown

            Socialism is the reasonable, rational  relationship with your follow human being.

            Fredrick William Sillik, Anytown

            Socialism is education. By accepting ourselves for what we are we becomes friends with ourselves.  When look deep inside ourselves we find the answers and  accept ourselves. Then we grow outward looking to make friends with the rest of the world through honing our social skills.

            Fredrick William Sillik, Anytown

            Socialism is self respect

            Socialism is self accountability 

            Socialism is self awareness 

            Socialism is self acknowledgement

            Socialism is self awakening

            Fredrick William Sillik, Anytown

            What is the alternative to Socialism?

            E Archer, NYC
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            E Archer, NYC Fredrick William Sillik, Anytown 3/16/22

            Liberty and a republican form of government that respects the natural born rights of humankind.

            Fredrick William Sillik, Anytown
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            Fredrick William Sillik, Anytown E Archer, NYC 4/23/24

            Mr Archer, your "liberties" entail brutality, treacherousness, uncivilized manners, unprincipled behavior, and there's really, for the adult, no need of concerning themselves with the subject of "rights" in dealing with your childish mentality.  The adult responds accordingly to your childishness and slowly tries to develop human qualifying characteristics. The mature minded simply don't have time to argue rights and liberties to a child. The goal is to usher in reality. Socialism is the challenge of social abilities to create an adult.

            Fredrick William Sillik, Anytown

            In regards to the late Mr Norman Thomas it is our duty as socially responsible individuals to pave the way for the introduction of the human path that Socialism provides.  My route  has never been this passive attitude, and so I would have to insist on a socially proactive and determined consciousness. The earning attitude is the human attitude. You have to earn your humanity, it simply just doesn't appear. You have to make the proclamation and then claim it justifiably. Socialism is the challenge of social abilities to create the social proclamation. 


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